Yeah, I’ve seen this at the US Pro level too, and I think it’s silly. Perhaps 14+ days of racing would change my mind, but I think my wife (cat 1 roadie, sport dietitian) would laugh at the notion and say something like “they need to suck it up and drink their carbs! If they can stomach ham & cheese, they can intake more carbs.” (She’s a very gentle and super soft-spoken person until the topic becomes sport performance, especially at the pro level.)
Sure!
Just use enough to make it taste good and you’re probably good to go.
I don’t think you should be. If going to be strict about anything, moving the ratio closer to 1:1 is probably wise.
Ultimately, don’t the results matter more than theory? The just drink sugar water thing comes off as dogmatic at this point (and I say that as someone who drinks various concoctions of sugar waters while riding).
My Torq powder ran out so I thought I’d try this (conservatively @ 8%) as I’d had the raw materials in the cupboard for a while after following this thread.
60 min workout .89 IF, 266W NP. Calories ~1000Kcal.
I am used to this 8% dilution (750ml bottle) and I experienced no ill GI effects, however the mix was very sweet even with the sharp Lemon salt tabs. What can I change to make the mix more palatable, I imagine this will only get worse (sweeter) at higher concentrations e.g. 12%?
In general, in a major tour, I think they’re quite foolish to be doing the sandwich and solid food thing regardless of “rider preference.” I’ve been around (competed with) many elite and pro athletes (and was one) and they are by and large, completely clueless about how to fuel themselves appropriately. Disastrous in many cases. Laughable.
The collective knowledge on this forum outstrips most pro athlete’s knowledge 10x.
If the athletes want solid food, their soigneurs just need to make better-tasting drinks (lower flavor intensity for ultra stuff).
This quote I assume came from that podcast?
Respectfully, my knee jerk reaction to this statement is that it is absurd.
There is no reason to have suboptimal training part of the year, only to ramp it up for race season. Nutritional intake focus doesn’t take anything away from training and can add to training, and the adaptations that come from it. It causes no fatigue. It causes no financial setback. It takes very little time, if any, when considering that kcal balance would have to be met with higher consumption off the bike anyway, and that food would take time to prep or money to buy.
Ramping up nutritional focus before a race is ridiculous at a pro level. I have 20+ low-level amateur athletes who exert good nutritional focus year-round with no issue. It’s not something that has any tradeoffs unless someone literally doesn’t have time to make bottles.
Please take the above as my knee jerk reaction only. Tact there is at a minimum and I apologize for that!
SIS makes the mistake of putting sweeteners in many of their products. Makes them taste great for the first 2-3 hours when consuming only 30-60g per hour. But when pushing higher rates of consumption or mixing with other sweeter products, the sucralose addition is totally overkill.
Recommendation: get your sodium from Sodium Citrate. It’s cheaper by a wide margin and will dampen the sweetness even compared to putting nothing in additionally.
Totally agree. For the same reason, I’m surprised so many can stomach high doses of Gatorade. It turns my stomach fast. I can drink malto:fructose for hours.
Sorry, I meant, “artificial sweeteners.” As in, sucralose. Non-nutritive. Gatorade does not do this.
Gatorade uses primarily sucrose, with glucose, which is why it’s sweeter than a malto+fructose mix.
Gatorade only uses maltodextrin in their more expensive Gatorade Endurance product.
SIS decided that their primarily maltodextrin-based supps weren’t sweet enough so they often add sucralose, which is an artificial sweetener with no kcal, and is entirely unnecessary, and over-sweetens the beverages for anyone fueling with higher carb intake rates.
My bad. I should have been more specific. You were discussing the “sweet” taste bothering people. What I meant was the “taste” of Gatorade is overly sweet to me and turns my stomach fast. Especially in heat. I can drink a 90g mix of Malto:fructose for hours, but even just a normal serving of Gatorade kills me. Same with Skratch.
It just amazes me that others don’t have the same problem. My stomach is clearly weird.
I personally agree. I love the beta fuel flavor alone.
The cyclists whose bottles I made at nationals all complained it was too sweet. I think I have WAY higher tolerance/preference for sweet than most folks. Maybe because I’ve put 3 cups of sugar in a 1-L bottle with a scoop of Gatorade.
(it was 85-90 degrees F and >70% humidity with full radiant heat from sun at US Pro RR 2021, and the pace was blistering from the gun so it’s pretty likely these ladies were on the limit and slightly dehydrated pretty quickly)
So far I noticed I can ride 8+ hours on just liquid fuel (malto/fructose/sodium) with 90grams an hour (still experimenting with 1/0.8 and 2/1 ratios). But does your wife also have a recommendation on when and how to add some protein into the mix for longer rides? There’s a lot of conflicting advice on that subject. Plus I don’t wan’t to upset the current intake too much as it works quite well and making mistakes is an annoying process on a long ride…
Just scoop in some EAS in the bottles? Take some actually bars with me with at least 20gr protein and consume them every couple of hours? …
It just seems like a bad idea to spend 8 or more hours riding with only carbs coming in. I would like to preserve whatever muscle mass I have if I can.
I have whey isolate, Leucine and EAS available to experiement with
Hi Alex. Thanks for your insight. I just checked and you’re 100% correct, even the ‘0cal’ electrolyte tabs have sucralose additive (which is what I am using, not the SIS energy powder).
I thought the combo of 2:1 mix + a hydro tab would give me the flavour and salt without the citrate. I’ll give citrate a go.
Now, on another note. I raced in warm and humid conditions several weeks ago, I used a high % drink, say 10-11% in a 750ml bottle (Torq powder). I felt quite dehydrated after the race and I wonder if this was down to Osmolality of the mix? These high concentrations certainly don’t quench my thirst like an electrolyte or low % carb mix
Start from zero and gradually build up your sweetness (either fructose or sucrose). I was like that last year. I could drink maltodextrin but even a pinch of fructose and my stomach wasn’t happy. Now I can do 40-50 g of fructose in a bottle (with the same amount of maltodextrin). Granted, only two bottles but I don’t have more bottle cages
Any one know of a cheap source of sodium citrate in the UK? I checked Amazon and it all looks overpriced. If there’s nothing out there I think I’ll use High 5 hydration tablets.
The quantity isn’t displayed, unless my eyes are deceiving me. £19.99 for XXXg? Table salt is something like £1 for 750g. So sodium citrate costs ~20 times more than sodium chloride.
I think Citrate improves absorption over Chloride (better bioavailability).
In which case, this may not be an issue on shorter (e.g. HIIT sessions) but might become an implication on longer rides if you are not replenishing sodium levels.
I like VC and enjoy his videos, but he continues to have the same problem. He is a good example of why hydration and fueling have to be handled as one and not thought of as two separate things. He needs more water. Add in the heat, sun, and duration of that race and it makes it even worse. Pushing your gut by trying to absorb the max calories without enough fluids and it eventually will say no more. 3-4hr races and you might not notice, but any longer and you will.
