TrainerRoad AI FTP Prediction FAQs

[JoeX]

@Twowkg

That’s still missing the point I was making.

No, we’re just operating on different parameters.

[ScouseScud]

From a techie point of view, is the training approach and workout plan an API call?

In my head, you could have a set of calls to plan your next month to provide the best FTP result possible from whichever training approaches. If my understanding of what Jon was saying about tokens on the podcast, that would be token-hungry. But is that the general gist?

[Rizzi]

@Twowkg

If the power prescribed is too low to elicit vo2 max then it’s not a vo2 max workout.

You are talking past each other. Let me try to solve the puzzle. After that never-ending discussions about FTP, RPE, Z2, now let’s discuss VO2max.

There is a training zone called VO2max and there is a physiological state VO2max. When prescribing VO2max workouts TR has often said that it’s not all the time about the physiological state but that they are also using this as a training zone to familiarize and train you at higher power and so on. (I guess this is where you are talking past each other)

Going off the rails deeper into that rabbit hole we will find Coggan (such a shame that is no longer on this forum) and that there is nothing special about VO2max:

@The_Cog

On here and many other forums, I see many people seeking the “perfect” training program. As my brilliant wife once pointed out to me, there is no such thing. To reinforce that conclusion, I submit that there are really only three types of workouts (not three training “zones”):

1. Sprint (and/or weight- or plyometric-) training aimed at increasing maximal neuromuscular power;
2. “Go hard, puke, go home” intervals (i.e., high intensity efforts with lots of rest in between), intended to enhance fatigue resistance during non-sustainable exercise; and
3. Everything else, which is meant to improve our ability to perform aerobic exercise.

Recognition of this fact (if you accept the premise anyway) makes it a lot easier to understand why “all roads lead to Rome”.

@The_Cog

VO2max is in 3.

[patrickhill]

What’s the best way to push my FTP prediction date 1.5 weeks out? Can I just ignore the prompt to detect FTP for 10 days? That’s what I would have done in the past. Will that still work?

[Pbase]

Yes, you can just ignore it to set a new pattern.

[Pbase]

Wouldn’t VO2 be in 2? What am I missing there? Where is endurance/tempo/sweetspot? I would have thought those were 3.

[Rizzi]

I’m not going to argue Coggan . Here is your answer:

Open the thread and filter by his posts…there are many highlights!

It’s all aerobic training in a continuum.

@The_Cog

@Derailleur

the question still is how to best schedule #3 training . Just do as much tempo as I can and recover from. Or also include periods of Treshold and VO2max blocks. And are 40-20’s good or are 5x5’s better… Or am I unnecessary complicating it again?

All of the above, as well as everything else.

@The_Cog

Within “group 3” workouts, though, I think that the specificity is often overrated, at least/especially when it comes to duration. Rather, it’s more about the overall training load/level of aerobic fitness.

@Slowwithouttwitch

And with your 3 categories, is there still any good reason to train with a power meter? Other than maybe measuring progressive overload a tick more precise than by time, distance, vertical climbing speed etc?

Reading between the lines, IMO it has never been about carefully regulating the intensity of individual workouts.

Let me repeat that for emphasis

IMO it has never been about carefully regulating the intensity of individual workouts. That’s why, for example, our book was titled Training and Racing With a Power Meter, and not Training and Racing By Power, (Note: this is where TR gets it woefully wrong.). Rather, with respect to “type 3” training, the benefits of using a power meter reside in 1) quantifying the overall training load (ad you mentioned), and 2) determining what is working and what isn’t (i.e., is my power over X duration going up, or not?).

@The_Cog

1. Yes, you can almost certainly bias things toward improving cardiovascular vs. muscular metabolic fitness to some degree by manipulating your training. The thing is, there is considerable overlap, and you need both, so at the end of the day, it’s all good.
2. Far and away the most important factor is mitochondrial respiratory capacity.

Adaptations of skeletal muscle to endurance exercise and their metabolic consequences - PubMed

ETA: Re. point #1: once upon a time, I reasoned that since I could maintain ~90% of VO2max for >1 h, I should focus on raising my “ceiling”. 18 wk of 3 d/wk Hickson intervals later, I hit my highest VO2max ever (5.45 L/min at 67.5-68 kg). I then raced the Texas state TT, and got my butt kicked.

Moral of the story? Train for performance, and let your physiology sort itself out. In particular, don’t underestimate the importance of specificity (specificity, specificity, specificity, specificity…is there an echo in here?).

[Helvellyn]

@Pbase

Wouldn’t VO2 be in 2? What am I missing there? Where is endurance/tempo/sweetspot? I would have thought those were 3.

Those are all in 3. 2 is just/only anaerobic capacity stuff. 30 second to 60 second efforts. Full recovery. Go again. Repeat until you’re empty.

[Pbase]

Thanks…but if 2 is anaerobic and 3 is everything below anaerobic, what is 1?

[Helvellyn]

1 is off the bike strength and power work plus tractor pulls, track race start practice etc etc

[Pbase]

Got it. Thanks!

[Cravery]

I’d like to understand this too I have similar recent history of pr performances on Zwift (my volume is down though) and aiftp has me at lowest ftp from years. I am starting to understand aiftp is different to “ftp” but the workouts are still very easy relative to intended zone using aiftp.

[ljd1987]

I’ve just started a new plan, and have completed the first two workouts. Before I started, I was seeing an AI FTP prediction, and after my first workout (which I rated very hard) it adjusted things down, which seemed reasonable.

However, when I go to my dashboard now the AI FTP prediction just seems to be stuck in a constantly “predicting” state. I’m not too concerned about being able to see the prediction (though it is quite cool), but just concerned it might be indicative of other issues that could be affecting the automated adjustments of my plan etc?

As an aside… I’ve happily made use of AI FTP detection since it was released. I do think it’s been a little generous lately given my reduced volume. I think my first workout in my plan was firmly in the threshold zone rather than what I think of as sweet-spot (hence the very hard rating). Granted, it’s been quite some time since I’ve done consistent interval training so I’m not as acclimatised to these efforts as I have been previously… but I was expecting the FTP detection to have been lower.

[Pbase]

A few things others have said helped.

Close and reopen the app. Move a workout to a different day and back. Change a survey answer and back.

[ljd1987]

Yeah - moving a workout seemed to sort it out. Many thanks for the tip

[Sidi]

I could’ve sworn I turned AI FTP prediction off and now it has reappeared in the app. Any ideas how to disable it and hide it permanently?

[aydraper]

How to Use the New AI FTP Prediction (Without Letting It Drive You Crazy)

After spending some time with the new AI FTP Prediction, reading the forum threads, and doing some experimenting myself, I wanted to share how I think this tool is actually useful — and how it can become a distraction if you let it. This is not official TrainerRoad guidance, just one user’s take after using at it for a while. What AI FTP Prediction is AI FTP Prediction is best thought of as: A 4-week forecast of how your current training setup is predicted to impact your AI FTP metric. It’s …

[Mariod1]

How do I turn this AI stuffoff I really can’t stand it. I want to have set workouts with no changes, The UI for the app and Web are very slow to figure out what workouts need to do. To get mentally ready to do my best I want to know what every future workout will be and have a choice whether to change it. Really even that was a pain because I couldn’t preview the planned workout easily once adaptation work detected. Seriously about to cancel service if this cannot be completely disabled. I like to pick my training blocks and see what they consist of in ADVANCE!!!. About to switch to Rouvy for real.

[aydraper]

Turn off AIFTP prediction

Turn off Fatigue Protection

Pin your workouts

That should do it…I wouldn’t recommend it as I think you’ll be missing out on a lot. But as they say…you be you