With the old version it helped me reach an very good 240FTP. Since the new version my FTP is down to 226FTP, after a 4 week build and a another two weeks is is predicting my FTP to 204, this is just stupid, why will my FTP go down, I have increased my volume as I can feel i am loosing fitness. my subscription expires in March and i will not continue with TR, this new model is making less fit even if i selected a increase FTP program.
Did you follow the plan as prescribed for the 4 week build? Were you doing base training before this? Hard to know what’s going on without any details.
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Without supporting data this is just howling into the void. Have you spoken to support?
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Their calendar is public. It’s…interesting.
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Hi DBRacing64. Looking at your calendar, it doesn’t look like you’ve been following a plan overly closely in the last few weeks. Obviously, sometimes that is unavoidable, but it does mean that the system is likely to think you’re struggling a bit with it (even if you are still doing lots of volume).
Is this a masters plan?
Looking at the next few weeks leading up to the next AI FTP detection, you only have four days with intense workouts scheduled - two VO2 max workouts (a 5.7 and a 5.4) and two threshold workouts (a 3.1 and 2.2). It’s not much stimulus to really drive up FTP over that sort of a period. If the system think’s you struggling at the current set FTP and looks ahead and doesn’t see much planned intensity, then I think it is probably just trying to adjust down to the point where you can start doing more intensity
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Would say 2 intense workouts a week is enough to progress, especially if you’re a master (maybe the 64 in the user name is a birth year?!). But the issue from what I can see is throwing in a lot of fatigue on days when should be recovering. Long hardish rides and indoor races on yellow days and during recovery weeks. Which then impacts the ability to really nail the hard structured workouts.
Looking at your calendar… training seems fairly consistent. You generally have a workout Tuesday, endurance Thursday, workout Saturday and a longer outdoor ride on Sunday. (Looks like things get shuffled now and then due to work/travel but over-all are putting the work).
The only thing I can see is that your FTP was increasing last year as the TSS was building. TSS has been declining lately (looks like you had a busy start of the year?) and so FTP has with it. The other thing to consider is that when FTP was “recalibrated” with the update so the numbers may not be declining as much as it seems but there to give appropriate workouts.
The 7% drop with your consistency and following a plan is perplexing though. Seems like it might be worth reaching out to support to talk it through.
Take a closer look at the workouts. They are consistently working out, but certainly not following the plan very closely.
Simple question. How do you see his or her calendar when there is not link posted?
Assuming most folks login to the forum with their TR deets means in most cases you can see our calendar.
Open your own calendar and replace your user name with theirs in the http line
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I can see this isn’t the greatest adherance to a plan, but it’s a good amount of TSS, are we now saying that going out and enjoying smashing about on your bike will make you less fit?
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TR have always said that time spent training is going to be more effective indoors because you’re focusing on the intended zone and that a lot of people think they’re getting close to the intended workout outdoors but when you look at the data, it’s not nearly as workout compliant as indoors. That doesn’t mean riding hard outside or just doing your own thing isn’t making you fit, it just means you’re not training as optimally as they think you can indoors. This is why so many of us spent so long begging for “Workout Levels V2”, which never materialized and isn’t really needed with the new system.
ya but its CRAZY to think ftp will drop from 221 to 204 when you look at the workouts hes got the next two weeks (and the past couple days).
Just IN GENERAL you are not losing fitness with 2 hard workouts a week PLUS the endurance rides
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You’re comparing TRAIFTP to FTP. It’s an easy trap to fall into. His 20/40/60 min power probably hasn’t dropped much. His “number displayed in TR” has.
I would argue his “FTP” isn’t dropping. Rather the TR system is seeing the new “AiFTP” metric to set optimal training is lower. I know that is semantics, but I think it’s important. If people would look at “AiFTP” as a metric to optimize training rather than a measure of fitness, it would calm down some of the angst.
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Sure but if your “metric to optimise training” goes up it’s because the AI has identified that you need harder workouts to progress, which generally means you’re fitter. You can’t necessarily compare it to the previous metric, so if it went down initially when they turned it on that’s no big deal, might just mean the AI thinks you’ll be more consistent, recover better, and progress more pushing lower watts. But if it’s consistently dropping from one block to the next that’s a pretty good sign that you’re able to productively handle less load than before, which is a sign that you’re getting less fit. Guess it could also be that the AI is learning more about you - e.g. If the workouts it was feeding you in the first block were turning out to be too hard and not productive it might drop you down.
Recovery rides. That’s what’s scheduled. TR probably thinks he’s getting two lots of stimulus but is detraining in between.
Wow, thanks everyone for the responses. This helps to think a bit on to proceed. To add I just increase the TSS as I felt that AI was not giving me enough hard work. For context I have raced for the last 20+ years and i would say i know when the volume is not enough. At the start of the plan I followed Jonathon’s podcast advice just follow the PLAN as suggested, but 4 weeks in I changed my opinion and added volume. As a last resort I added my views to the forum. Yes I am a master and yes I turn 62 this year but AI is telling based on my next 15 workouts my FTP will reduce from 221 to 204 while i am on a program to increase my FTP. This does not make sense to me, surely the AI must adjust my schedule to help to increase my FTP. Any suggestions to change my plan will help. Since January if have restarted plan 3 times with the same net effect where AI keep on projecting a reduced FTP. Bring back the old TR … :-), where I had my best FTP and aced a 7 day stage race in South Africa, with a podium result in my age group.
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I would suggest stepping back and looking at your calendar as if it were not your own. Compare what was prescribed every day to what you actually did and see if they look the same.
Here are a few examples. Think about how the AI is supposed to score these workouts against what it prescribed, and it seems to be a bit of garbage in, garbage out. Look at the structure, the .IF, the scoring. I’m not at all saying you’re not working hard, it’s just that this isn’t what the workouts are supposed to be, so you’re feeding the system “garbage” and expecting it to be able to parse it and make sense of where you are in your progression.
