I’d like to add my recent experience to the value of lots of high end endurance training with minimal Threshold or VO2Max work.
Feb March and the first week of April I was doing SSBHV1 (6 weeks no missed WOs) and SSBHV2 (about first 4 weeks and no missed WOs) before I went to South Carolina and took part in the Assault on the Carolinas 100km fondo. Here’s the ride.
On that trip I had an accident and broke the femoral neck in my hip which was reattached with 4 screws. Then 6 weeks on crutches. I decided to do a lot of Z2 (based on MAF HR of 75% of HRMax and/or power at 75% of threshold) riding with very little intensity during my recovery. I kept the FTP at the pre-accident 270 watts. So TSS is comparable before and after the accident. I could crank up the weekly TSS because I wasn’t getting fatigued from the constant SS intervals and I trained 7 days per week unless I missed some days due to work travel. Here’s my weekly TSS before and after the accident.
Beginning in July I did one outdoor group ride per week which was a ride with brief periods of high intensity. I might also do a Zwift group ride for 2 to 3 hours on Sat and/or Sun at mostly Z2 with brief periods at Threshold, but rarely above. A few Saturdays and/or Sundays in the month leading up to the fondo, I would do both the Zwift ride and the outdoor group ride for a 5 to 5.5 hour day.
Here are the summary stats from a Fondo of 180 kms I completed this weekend.
I felt strong throughout the ride and started to fade only in the last 20 kms. Comparing the summary stats of both rides I would say the Z2 riding was very effective because it allowed me to ride more hours without the fatigue of SS training. Below are the details of the ride.
Ideally, getting FatMax wattage to threshold is the goal.
Secondly, trimming at 83% is 83% of cycling max HR.
About your complaints. I do an enormous amount of research before every show but I simply cannot become an expert on every topic. That’s the reason we have an expert on the show for every topic we cover. We cover a massive depth of information on this show. I do my best to understand each concept as well as possible to provide a useful interview for listeners and I hope that works out most of the time.
We definitely have a list of questions built. This helps us cover as much information as possible in a short period of time.
I do try to ask questions if they come up naturally but please remember that there will always be some element of what questions arise in your mind may not arise in my mind.
I’ll keep remembering to ask questions if they make sense in the flow of conversation.
Great listen. While listening, I wondered if the HR cap was similar in principle to what Trevor Connor breifly mentioned on Fast Talk recently. Trevor was really vague on it so hard to know from what I’ve heard.
Ding ding ding!!! That is why this training method is ridiculous. Also 83% is WAY too specific to be taken seriously.
Before anyone comes at me with “but my results!!”, just know that the plural of anecdote is not data.
**EDIT FOR FURTHER CLARITY: I’m not saying that there isn’t decent foundations to this training method. You’ll find that in most training methods there are kernels of truth that can be applied to different people depending on their goals, the time they can dedicate to training and their life situation. Personally, I believe that TR is also guilty of this by massively overestimating some of their user’s training levels with the Ramp test.
If this works for you, great. But I have a real issue with coaches postulating that “it’s all about your fat max!” or “It’s all about your FTP!” etc etc etc. The truth is usually somewhere in between.
… Besides, everyone knows that it’s all about your VLAMax anyway (joking)
Ride your bike in a way that is specific to your event/s. Learn what each type of interval does physiologically, and apply that to a periodised plan with progressive overload depending on what suits your event.
That’s really interesting, although I wonder if the key point here is that you were “touching up” your high-end power. It sounds like you already had a pretty good FTP / MAP, it was just about tweaking the top-end while avoiding fatigue.
I wonder what Steve’s approach would have been with someone who came to him 6-12 months before a target event with a 250 watt FTP wanting to get to 300. Would it still be all built from below using tempo / SS work before a single month of once-weekly high-intensity before the event?
(I know Steve doesn’t use FTP to set zones - just using it to express it in easily understood terms)
It took listening to the first podcast on athletic potential that made me realize that TrainerRoad low/mid volume plans have too much VO2Max work. And now that I have a coach I am much more effective and motivated going into each training block. I don’t doubt the TR plans can be beneficial, but I have yet to meet anyone who can do a full base, build, specialty (the whole 6 months worth) and not reach some form of a burnout rather than taking charge of their A races. I like the idea of well prescribed aerobic work, this is an endurance sport after all to meet my goals. I also do see the benefit of an increase in VO2Max work closer to A race time, but certainly not 6 months prior.
You do an absolutely fantastic job of keeping the guests on point - even when on the odd occasion where the guest is a little bit … left field of mainstream science
Just to be clear, I didn’t start working with Steve to have good results in a race in 2 months…I started working with him to have good results in races next year. The fact that I had a good result 2 months after beginning to work with him was more or less a bonus. He even told me when we started working together that I shouldn’t expect miracles this summer (ie 2019) - but he did tell me that if I stick with it for 12 months I’ll be a completely different rider - that’s what I’m ultimately going for.
As for how his training methods might differ - or not - based on the scenario above…I’d be speculating. Although, I do feel they wouldn’t be THAT different. That is my opinion though - and I’ll continue to say that I don’t represent Steve in any way and I’m not an expert.
But if you knew the athletes he’s worked with…and what their results have been. Well…it’s massively impressive. That’s for him to share, though.
To me (as someone with a pretty big anaerobic work capacity) this approach is mostly about limiting AWC involvement in what is supposed to be aerobic training, thus really limiting aerobic improvement over time.
I can “test” much better than reality. I can even complete workouts at the tested FTP, but my gains slam into a wall after 4-6 weeks. Looking over this winter and springs data, what really happens is my FTP heart rate goes from mid 160s to mid-high 180s, i.e. i get better at suffering. I’m going to give this a try this winter as everything else I’ve tried over the years leads me to the same FTP year after year (I mean the same FTP as when I first tested 6 months after getting on the bike and just riding around as an adult). It’s really demotivating.
No. He gave me advice on how to fuel for my race, though. I think (not sure) we’re going to get much more into diet as we go. Since my race was two months away I don’t think he wanted to start messing with too many things at once. I kinda recall a conversation about fueling where he said something like, “for the time being just do what you’ve been doing” – something like that.
