Recent Flo Podcast with Bob Seebohar

Hi Chris
Just want to say chapeau on the recent podcast; I thought it was excellent
Would love to have him on the TR podcast; would love to see his reaction to Nate’s epic pre ride carbo loading !
Keep up the good work

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Just listening through to this now. Trying my best to follow it but like a lot of podcasts I always feel like there’s a tiny bit of info missing.

Let’s say my basal metabolic rate is 2000 calories (it is, roughly). With a 30/30/40 split, that gives me 150g of carbs (2.14g per kg), the same of protein, and 88g of fat.

Now if I do an extra 1500kj on the bike, how do I extend that? It seems that he suggests stopping protein intake at not much over 2g/kg, meaning I’ve pretty much maxed out my protein. So is the extra 1500 calories coming in carbs, fat, or both? Or does that depend on the intensity of the ride where I burned them?

He talked about increasing fat but didn’t categorically rule out increasing carbs either…

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I took it that if you want to lose weight then any carbs in the mix should be the non starchy kind. Also if the majority of the extra was Fat you’d feel a lot fuller as Fat makes you feel less hungry

Metabolic Efficiency Quick Start Guide

I found this online, and it explains a little bit. But I take it that he’s big on not counting calories, and using the palm sized serving of protein and palm sized serving of your carbs and that’s a meal, I think he mentions a snack is half of that, and that’s it.

I believe in the podcast it’s mentioned that post ride we need a lot less carbs than we think and have longer to replace them generally than many of us believe.

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Thanks, will take a look.

I suppose this depends a lot on the intensity. But will have a closer listen.

Along those lines there was a point where he talked about the difference between getting up in the morning and doing an easier workout vs nutrition and preparation prior to a more important workout. It just reminded me of a lot of the discussions here on doing SST on TR in the early morning, which would be hard to do using the prescription he gave.

Yeah, first thing in the morning and anything more intense than Z2 I just need to mainline caffeine and sugar to get through it.

I’m not sure who to believe on the diet information. Seebohar says fat oxidation is 75% diet related. On a recent FastTalk podcast, I recall, Asker Jeukendrup, another “expert” saying that your ability to oxidize fat during exercise is dependent on your genes and training, nothing to do with diet.

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I’m not overly specific on my diet, but as a cyclist I tend to lean towards someone like Jeukendrup who works with road cyclists on a high level. Hearing George Bennett on the last Fast Talk podcast confirmed a very reasonable carb based approach in a sport that requires a lot of glycogen heavy work.

It seems that Seebohar, like most proponents of lower carb training that focus on fat adaptation, are working in the world of triathlon and ultra events where steady state aerobic power is king.

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Now if I do an extra 1500kj on the bike, how do I extend that? It seems that he suggests stopping protein intake at not much over 2g/kg, meaning I’ve pretty much maxed out my protein. So is the extra 1500 calories coming in carbs, fat, or both? Or does that depend on the intensity of the ride where I burned them?

He talked about increasing fat but didn’t categorically rule out increasing carbs either…

The specific example he talked about if I remember correctly was that those extra calories would come from fat, though I believe he was talking in the context of a base phase. So you’re right in it depending.

If you were doing more intensity then that’s where he started talking about bringing those carbs up to 2:1 to protein I think and then you wouldn’t need to bring fat up as much.

I know what you mean. The truth is probably somewhere in between. It’s hard to believe that you can increase significantly your fat oxidation whilst simultaneously eating your way through a mountain of carbs. However you will become fat adapted if you cut out carbs almost completely - you just won’t be able to do much above threshold. My take is to reduce my carbs when I’m doing low intensity and increase them on the days when I’m doing more intense stuff. I’ve got an app on my Garmin which shows (based on my LTP and Threshold) how much carbs and fat I’m burning in real time. It’s quite a shock to see how fast the carbs are consumed as you up the intensity.

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That sounds cool; whats the App

And I agree; sometimes being ignorant is great; the danger is when you know a little and then start listening to contracditory advice
becuase this guy is opposite of the Lotto approach as you discussed
And Steve Neal seems to be opposite of Seiler where he does not like Tempo or SS

The answer is probably it depends, and on how, and crucially for what events you are doing…

Anyone else a bit disappointed by the 28% increase from a year of training and diet modification he spoke about at the end? The example was FTP 300w and crossover point moving from 100 to 128w. Didn’t sound very impressive to me!

I found the info interesting, and it made me want to do the MET testing. How do I find a local place to test? I’m in soCal…

It’s the Xert App which you can use if you subscribe to Xert (I subscribe and intend to continue to do so to both TR & Xert). There is also this one: https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/76ca8d3a-c186-4d65-8bf2-20971e02898b
I’ve been thinking about it some more and could it depend on the the number of hours you cycle. The less time you have the more important the diet becomes. That could reconcile the difference between the Lotto approach and Seebohars.

Thank you

Dummy question, when they talk about splits, do they mean by grams or by calories? The 1:1 rule based on the hand model suggests it’s by surface area!?! Confused here.

Loved the podcast BTW, great work.

Agreed; I love how in training we are super precise (ie 10 * 45 second intervals, cant be 44 or 46 secs) but with food its “look at your hand”. Presumably fluffy rice is less dense than a similarly sized thick steak?!

how does the app know what you’ve been eating before a workout? This is a major factor on how much carbs vs fat you burn.

I assume they’ve built a model the relates some met tests to their metrices?

bear in mind it’s obviously only a guide and an estimate probably in ideal circumstances. I assume its based on some form of standard Fat/Carb vs Intensity graph and how that relates to your individual signature in Xert. I found this on the Xert FB page from the horses mouth so to speak " For the calculations, we simply look at total kJ of work performed. Using each second of power data, we estimate based on your signature how much of it is from fat and how much from carbs. Fat has 38g per kJ and carb 17g per kJ. We use 23% GE. HTH".

I don’t know whether it works perfectly for me. and I use it as a guide as to roughly how many carbs I eat on a long ride. The general guide lines of 60-90g are quite wide and this narrows it down more based on my own power output.