Ramp Test vs 20 Minute FTP Test vs 8 Minute FTP Test

I recently did the 20 Min FTP Test as I’m leaving behind a SSBLV1/2 12 week block for the climbing road race program.

My ramp test FTP was 222 but my 20 Min FTP test suggested scaling back to 213. Not sure why the discrepancy when I was primarily between 220-230 for the 20-min TT itself.

Thoughts?

The 20-minute test uses 95% of your 20-minute average. If you look at the 20-minute interval in TR, what was your average power?

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The 20 minute interval average was 225/226, 90% would 203.

225*.95 = 213.75, so it sounds like it gave you the right number.

Did the test result give you 213 or 203?

203 is 90%

Where does 90% come from?

Several sports scientists recommend 90%, because 95% could overestimate FTP of age group athletes.

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It’s all a guess (or estimate if you want to be more scientific). For some it’s 90 or 95 and for some the ramp is better and for some it reads high. I think most amateur athletes focus is best spent on consistency rather than ensuring their test protocol
Is exactly perfectly correct

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When I look at the power duration model in WKO5 I’m shown 94% for me. At my 20 minute power I’m getting a 6% anaerobic contribution.

I highly recommend the Kolie Moore baseline test (35-45minutes). Going longer really shows you what you can do aerobically. I also found the progressive pacing of the 35-45 minute test easier than the all out 20 minute test.

Who?

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If it is useful you might not have seen these:
this calculator attempts to compare methods of working out FTP+zones from 20min test
and this calculator universally finds any point on your power-curve from any other point (advanced users can input cycling style eg climber). bw alex

I just did both the ramp test and 20 minute test out of curiosity (3 days apart). Painful curiosity. Ramp test put me at 315W, 20 min test put me at 294W (310 for 20’).
This was kind of what I expected, as I always prefer VO2 over Threshold work. It’s nice to know what the discrepancy is between those two numbers now. I’m sticking with the ramp test number because it’s what I’ve been using for training, and because it’s higher, ofc.

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Doesn’t Friel recommend you take the last 20 minutes of a 30 min all out effort?

Only for your threshold heart rate. Average power of the whole 30 is ftp he says.

I think TR should create a new specialty training block which consists solely of FTP protocols. “FTP Anxiety Reduction - Specialty Phase.”

TR Ramp test
Zwift Ramp test
8 minute test
20 minute test
Kolie Moore short protocol
Kolie Moore medium protocol
Kolie Moore long protocol
60 minute test

And do this block multiple times

  • big ring vs small ring
  • fan on vs off
  • carbs vs no carbs before
  • hot vs cool room
  • inside vs outside
  • powermatch on vs off

At the end of this you’ll have a really good idea of your FTP. :rofl:

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Only being able to hold (-5w) FTP for a 20 minute max effort would set off alarm bells for me

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I did this 3 times last year just because it was fun. Not the 8 minute test, as that is probably my strongest duration (aside 2 - 3 hours) and doesn’t reflect my FTP very well at all. I did the Kolie Moore Prog 1 test instead.

Mid / late Base ~ Feb 2020
Ramp Test (Zwift) 274w
20 minute Test 285w
Kolie Moore Test 284w
WKO mFTP 280w

Mid season 2020
Ramp 282w
20 minute 285w
Kolie Moore 286w
WKO 285w

End of season…
Ramp 288w
20 minute 275w
Kolie Moore 274w
WKO 273

So my conclusion, for me, it depends where you are the season. You can’t test at one point and say they are aligned or not aligned, they might or might not be next time.

They all look pretty aligned to me, depending on your setup/PM (if your PM has the +2/-2 accuracy).

Ramp test 9 - 10 under and then close then over by 13w compared with the others.

The others within 2 - 3 watts.

Vector 3 claimed accuracy 1%

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It’s a strange world. Flip those numbers the other way round and you have almost exactly my results. :man_shrugging:

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