Podcast episode 485 - really bad coverage on homemade drink mix - should be pulled/reworked

After listening to at least 100 of these over the years, I’m really not sure how this podcast was released in the form it was as it was kind of a mess.

A great (common) question from a listener on how to get extra sodium into their drink without making it too “salty.” Started off with good potential explaining that you have to account for the fact that NaCl is only partially Na by weight - although then that ambled way more than necessary given the expert guest should known this kind of detail off the top of their head - and then it just started going off the rails talking about using NaCl to a point and then supplementing with separate electrolyte tablets, no updated guidance on how to quantitatively do that and I’d summarize as “oh you just have to try lots of things…” - but finally well into this discussion, sodium citrate is mentioned, and the host and guest admit they know nothing about it other than the fact that it’s in pretty much every major sports drink. :thinking:

At this point, probably would have been good to just drop the question from the episode, go research it, and bring it back for a future podcast. But the bad speculation continued with neither of them knowing anything about what they were talking about.

There was a discussion how how expensive it is vs. salt and would add 5x the cost. Go on Amazon - it’s literally $0.02/gram. It is not even remotely relevant to the cost of making a homemade drink. The cost is all in the maltodextrin and fructose that make up the vast majority of the mix by mass - and they are also dirt cheap compared to commercial mixes.

They speculated about the taste - it’s very well known and easy to get a bag and see for yourself - slightly citrusy but mild compared to citric acid (also useful for flavoring your drink) . This again is a reason why it is so widely utilized.

And fundamentally, it’s used all over the place for good reason - it’s a way to get more sodium in without the Cl that causes various internal distress - exactly what the listener wanted to accomplish.

Just really disappointing episode that did nothing useful to answer the question when in fact, there is a very clear, simple, economical solution - use salt as you prefer for taste, and make up the balance of Na via sodium citrate (accounting for the fractional weight that is actually Na) to reach your desired Na level.

This should be re-done sharing an analysis of the options with quantitative cost info, pros/cons of typical additives people use for both Na and flavors and malto:fructose ratios, talk about options if someone wants to add other trace minerals, and share a spreadsheet that people could use and tune.

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The tone of this post demanding changes to a free podcast is a little strong for me, but I was rather confused by this point as well

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I was confused that the expert had to make a note to look into sodium citrate. “Can you buy just like bulk sodium citrate?”

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Yea, perhaps a bit strong - but there is also some responsibility that comes with asking for top ratings, aiming to have the biggest audience in cycling podcasts, feeding the TR business with podcast listens, etc.

I was just floored by the lack of knowledge of the expert on this episode and the lack of preparation to answer a good question I hear a lot from other riders. Hopefully it was a one-off bad day, but definitely an opportunity to come back to this better prepared and maybe consider taking down something that was not their finest work. Credibility is hard to earn, easy to lose!

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I don’t blame Kyle for not knowing about the common use of sodium citrate, though it’s surprising since it’s widely used because of the mellower flavor and the idea that higher chloride concentrations are part of what drives upset stomach (was surprised they didn’t discuss this). Seems like it would have been on the topic list that Jonathan would send to the guest, but maybe it was a last minute “oh yeah” addition. I looked for a couple days for a forum post on that episode, so I could support the use of sodium citrate, but never saw one, but wasn’t upset enough to start a post. Hopefully they’ll do a follow-up like they’ve done many times before.

I use 1/2 to 3/4 tsp of sodium citrate per bottle (1/2 tsp has 530 mg sodium), and am happy to pay the $0.10 to 0.15 per serving. Using this stuff consistently has made a huge difference in my riding, and more importantly my recovery (Florida).

eta: I talked the sodium citrate up quite a bit to one of the guys I ride with the most, and gave him a few doses (in an almost empty container so he had all the details), so he could try it. He was talking up Liquid IV to some other people this weekend, so I guess he prefers to spend a couple dollars per bottle.

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I did find the episode confusing and the guest was certainly under prepared.
However it doesn’t happen very often and the TR podcasts are excellent source of nutritional and race tactic information, amongst other things.

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I was a bit more worried by the repeated mistake with grams!

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hvvelo, what is your drink mix?

It was a terrible episode, indeed. Thanks, @hvvelo, for putting all the good points together. If taken seriously and without bias, this kind of criticism should benefit everyone.

Curiously, I’ve never noticed any taste to sodium citrate, and I mix pretty a heavy 5-8g/750mL depending on day).