Multiple stops during workout but still finishing at same intensity. FTP still increased by AI

Hello, I just started structured workout via TR this year in January and been using AI FTP detect since then. I’m on low volume and on a plan builder for XC MTB races spread through the year. During the first few weeks I was still able to complete a workout without stopping during intervals, and as soon as AI start increasing my FTP, workouts become harder as it should but I am not able to finish it without stopping for 30sec or more before continuing with same intensity. I am able to finish the workouts with 4-6 times of stopping or “backpedalling” and yet I still get increasing FTP as per AI. I started at 213 - 227- 240 and the latest is 247. Should I just do ramp tests every 28 days instead of AI FTP detect? I feel like AI still detects my workouts as complete despite stopping in middle for 30sec to catch my breath, thus overestimating FTP every 28 days giving me workouts that I could not handle in one go. I have set my account to public so anyone can see my progress. Please advice. Thanks in advance.


What you are putting in the post workout surveys for these rides?


From Hard to Very Hard just because i’m still able to finish it with the same intensity. Usually able to resume after stopping for 30sec until next exhaustion again then repeat til finish.

If you’re stopping 4-6 times I’d recommend rating the workouts All Out.

[Edit] AI doesn’t know why you’re stopping. Could be you’re tired, or needed to go to the bathroom, or dropped your towel etc.

Out of curiousity, what types of workouts? Mind linking your calendar?


Interesting, would have thought this might play some influence and, at the very least, slow down the progressions. Could always email support@ for more insight.

But as noted above, worth changing them to All Out and then answering the additional question.

Then I’d personally, at the next similar workout, use the Alternative search to reduce suggested PL number until you can comfortably finish. If that fails, try a ramp test.


Whiteleaf +2

here’s the link - TrainerRoad


It’s still showing up as private.

Also, here’s a helpful chart for the post ride survey which can be a good supplement to the TR guidlines. It was made by user @mcneese.chad -


Let me try to change the surverys and see if the adaptation changes for future workouts. Thanks!!!

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You are definitely describing “all out” efforts. I’m starting to think TR should recommend athletes read their post workout survey explanation right when it gives the response options. Without reading this forum, I don’t know how long I would have misunderstood them and simply gone with the overly subjective advice “don’t overthink it.” Frankly that is not good advice in the absence of the explanations


Good advice below about how to rate workouts. I also wanted to add that you don’t have to accept the FTP update - the system gives you the option to decline it.


i’m thinking and agreeing that TR has adjusted how the software perceives workout pauses. A while back during a sweet spot workout i was doing when my young daughter was home from preschool I was interrupted multiple times for snack refills and such. At the end I got a struggle survey in spite of having hit the numbers as per usual at which point I hit the custom response to explain that “I have a bleeping child.” Since then I may not have paused as many times as that day but I’ve had rides punctuated by pauses and have not gotten a struggle survey so the sensitivity to which those are triggered by pause breaks seems to have been adjusted. Couple that with taking the break to be able to hit the numbers properly and then doing so so that it doesn’t “look” like you’re struggling to hit said numbers I could imagine the system isn’t seeing that the way it used to. The survey at the end should reflect whether the pauses were to stave off destruction or just because your fan kept tripping the circuit breaker.

In the end you know you better than TR does. If the new FTP seems at all realistic givita go and see if it kills you. It can always be adjusted back down afterwards. Also figure we’re all different and some workouts at a certain FTP may be deadly while others are a breeze.

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Still. If you stop in the actual workout, not between, I don´t understand why you are not asked why. The Extra survey that pop up. I have never experienced a stop in the interval without getting that extra Survey.
I would contact support and ask them to take a look at that.

All out: massive effort & focus
You BARELY made it to the end, used bailouts, pauses, backpedals
Extremely difficult & beyond your abilities today

This has always slightly bugged me: maybe the top response option should be “Too Hard”, with the same explanation as under the current “All Out”.

If I just read the response options, then to me, all out implies that I completed the workout more or less as specified, just barely, heroic effort, going to order Popeyes to reward myself. Maybe I took one pause, maybe I took a few extra seconds rest, maybe I reduced the intensity by 2%, but I competed it.

So, if I were designing the response scale, the sequencing might be easy or maybe too easy, moderate, hard, very hard, and too hard.


Hey @Cyclingjim, welcome to the forum! :partying_face:

I’d definitely echo some of what I’m hearing on this thread from @gally24 and @spinnnout. :slightly_smiling_face:

If you physically can’t make it through a workout without stopping to catch your breath, then the workout is too hard for that day, and it sounds like “All Out” is the right response to the survey. Keep in mind that telling the software that the workout was an all-out effort due to something like sleep or nutrition is different than telling it that the workout was simply “too intense.”

Not only is it important to be accurate and honest with the post-workout survey responses but also in the “struggle surveys” which help to let us know if this was a fluke or something more that we need to adjust for down the road.

Something else I’ve noticed that’s popped up recently in your calendar is annotations signifying strength training ~3x a week which can have a huge impact on your training on the bike. A great example of this is your Whiteleaf +2 workout on March 29th was marked as “Moderate” but then a week later a day after “Deads & Squats” you attempted Whiteleaf +3 (a logical progression from +2) and rated it as “All Out” due to poor sleep. I’m wondering if some of that strength training is starting to catch up with you in conjunction with your workouts on the bike.

If Whiteleaf +3 was actually hard because you didn’t sleep well, then you might still do alright during this week’s level 5.6 Threshold workout. If, however, it was due to training fatigue, then it’s probably best to dial this week’s workout back a little bit to give yourself a better chance of success. Again, there is a big difference between one night of poor sleep and weeks of training stress catching up to you. It’s important that you communicate this as best as possible through the post-workout & struggle surveys to keep your training on track with your abilities.

Regardless, I’d ensure that you’re balancing all of your weekly activities in a way that gives your body the chance to rest enough in between workouts and absorb the stress you’re accruing. We’re hoping to build strength training into Red Light Green Light really soon, so that will also help to prevent long-term training fatigue as well.

If you hit the gym one day and don’t sleep well that night, I’d consider doing what @spinnnout recommended and find an easier Workout Alternate, switch that upcoming workout to an easy ride, or even take the day off if it’s going to set you up for your next workout as best as possible.

Let me know if this makes sense and if you have any questions moving forward. I’d like to ensure that you’re set up properly and in a place that’s going to work well for you long-term.

We’re always here to help, so don’t hesitate to reach out! :handshake:


Thank you!!! My job requires me to work shift hours where i do 7 days of 12hrs night shift in two weeks alternating with 2 weeks of day shift. Body is constantly changing rhythm in terms of recovery. During those two weeks of night shift i mostly do workouts in the afternoon after waking up from 3 hours of sleep, and during day shift i wake up at 4am to do workout prior to work. The workout’s intensity becomes greater with lack of sleep but i rate the survey as no sleep. I stop to recover and grind to finish the intervals. Yet AI still increases my FTP. Hopefully i’m doing productive workouts in terms of progress. Looking forward to that new feature to add in GLRL fatigue management as I also incorporate strength training to improving MTB handling. :saluting_face: I appreciate all the response guys!!! Will follow your suggestions and hopefully i get the right adaptations from AI!!

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I feel ya on the shift work! I did that for 15 years and never could get a good rhythm. We switched every three months too.

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Apologies in advance if this comes across as harsh. I’m saying this as someone who has been here and who has ended up burnt out and wish someone would have given me this advice much sooner…It sounds like you are being overly reliant on the AI to guide you and are letting ego get in the way of productivity. If the workouts are too hard, stop accepting the FTP increases. Do a 20 minute FTP test (or even better, a Kolie Moore test (search the forum)) and see if you’re even close to holding that FTP. If the workouts are consistently too hard (they should almost never be too hard) mark them all out and pick less intense alternates next time. Don’t let yourself go down the path of “but TR should know my FTP and should be giving me the best workout for my level” and take a bit more control and you’ll have a much more consistent and achievable experience that will lead to bigger gains and more fitness in the long term.


To a degree - but they weren’t really answering the survey’s honestly* (by not being aware) either. I don’t suppose they would’ve got the increases if they were going “all out”/ “too intense”.

*n=1 it can be hard, as often the inclination is to want progress/ blame other things than the intensity.

I don’t agree at all with the “just answer honestly” comment we hear so often. I “just answered honestly” and got fried. I eventually just started rating every workout one degree harder than I “honestly” felt.

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People reading this forum probably already know this, but you can go back and change your survey response for up 7 days. I say this because our ego can get in the way of being honest immediately after a workout. I say this from experience. Like a lot of things, sleeping on it can help with perspective.