Can @Dr_Alex_Harrison comment on the dosing recommended by this seller? 10g, 20g per 500ml?! Sounds like an awful lot more than 1tsp
The quantity isn’t displayed, unless my eyes are deceiving me. £19.99 for XXXg? Table salt is something like £1 for 750g. So sodium citrate costs ~20 times more than sodium chloride.
It’s 500g I believe.
I think Citrate improves absorption over Chloride (better bioavailability).
In which case, this may not be an issue on shorter (e.g. HIIT sessions) but might become an implication on longer rides if you are not replenishing sodium levels.
Another one for @Dr_Alex_Harrison
I like VC and enjoy his videos, but he continues to have the same problem. He is a good example of why hydration and fueling have to be handled as one and not thought of as two separate things. He needs more water. Add in the heat, sun, and duration of that race and it makes it even worse. Pushing your gut by trying to absorb the max calories without enough fluids and it eventually will say no more. 3-4hr races and you might not notice, but any longer and you will.
Just need to drink more fluid volume when hot/humid. Keep sodium per liter same. Keep total carbs same (so more dilute carbs).
both dissociate almost immediately, sodium citrate just has more sodium to chloride/citrate both of which are not essential in electrolyte balance.
@Dr_Alex_Harrison curious if you’ve considered adding sodium bicarbonate as a fraction as it has buffering capacity as well as providing sodium ions?
We have avoided protein entirely for up to 30+ hr events. No need.
Homeostasis is a powerful thing. Consume adequate protein daily, and maybe a little more the day or two after and I’d wager that after 2-3 days (and probably only 1 day) there would have been no net muscle loss.
Certainly no need for protein consumption in anything under 12 hrs. Consuming 100-170g protein in the other 12 hours of the 24 available is no issue and will be sufficient.
Sure does sound like it. Their ingredients list is absent. I suspect there is something else in there. They also list 64g salt and 100g sodium citrate per 100g. I wouldn’t purchase this purely because it seems like poor quality control is extremely likely.
Sodium citrate is widely available as a cheese modifier or something. At least, that’s why amazon seems to think I buy so much of it.
As I’ve shared elsewhere on this forum:
Using sodium citrate in place of table salt allows your gut to tolerate more sodium consumption during training. Sodium citrate has 3 sodium molecules for every 1 citrate molecule. Sodium chloride has 1 sodium molecule for every 1 chloride molecule. That means that for the same amount of sodium consumption, there will be a greater number of molecules ingested, if using table salt, rather than sodium citrate. Osmolarity is the number of molecules per unit volume of solution. Our gastrointestinal tracts are sensitive to very high osmolarity solutions. During normal daily living, consumption of very high osmolar solutions (lots of molecules per liter) causes a laxative effect 20-60 minutes after consumption. During exercise, it causes gut cramping, THEN a laxative effect. My personal experience with this can be described as “not fun!”
Sodium Citrate is widely used as a melting salt - good for making creamy cheese (fondue, velveeta like things etc).
There is a reason sodium citrate helps make perfect NaCHO’s
Any progress on the SIS gel or Maurten copy? I am eager to try this…
Yup I’ve been messing around with a few diy gels (one with pectin, another with agar agar, another with modified cornstarch). Remind me again what type of carbs you want in it, and what consistency you prefer? I’ll start a thread here with my findings to date.
I think most of them are 2:1 ratio of malto/fructose and thats my go to. Similar Consistency
Looks like Science in Sport has been listening to @Dr_Alex_Harrison , they just released an updated version of Beta fuel…
Relaunched in June of 2021, it now has a brand new optimised 1:0.8 ratio of maltodextrin to fructose, that when compared to traditional 2:1 ratio, is proven to enhance power output, increase carbohydrate oxidation efficiency, and limits gastrointestinal discomfort.
I got some early samples of this, and used them in an MTB race last week. Now, I didn’t have a good race but after 2.5hrs of MTB Marathon pace / 1600cals lost, I had 2 bottles of the new BF, and 2 torq gels. The only difference from my norm was new BF vs old BF
a) The new BF is a much better taste and consistency vs the old one. I don’t mind either but the new is better, less bland and less “like a chemical”
b) I never felt in carb decline physically or mentally throughout, and I wasn’t hungry on the 2hr drive after the event either.
There you go, not very scientific or helpful but its a start. Tomorrow I’m off for a 6hr+ road ride using the new BF gels on top of the BF mix for circa 130g carbs for each 1h:15, I’ll report back.
Apologies if already asked before, would it be possible/recommended to use the old beta fuel (BF) powder and top the carb intake with the isotonic gels?
Checking on Sis’ website they seem to suggest using the new BF powder and gels together but was wondering about the isotonic gels.
I have tried a few times but still have not been able to come to a firm conclusion.
Also, would there be any difference with using the new powder and isotonic gels?
To under this question you just need to understand the difference between Glucose and Fructose e.g. with the correct mix of both you get more Carbs into you per hour basically speaking.
SIS Isotonic Gels don’t contain Fructose, so in theory 1 Beta Fuel drink + 1 Iso Gel is a heaver ratio of Glucose to Fructose then is optimum.
It depends what event your doing and how much that matters to you, but essentially it may not matter, its all energy until you can’t absorb any more.
@jz91 The above is important. If effort is high or duration is long, or hydration is challenged for any reason (duration, effort, heat, humidity, altitude or otherwise), you’ll be intaking too much glucose and not enough fructose, if you’re anywhere near optimal rates of carb consumption per hour.
The safe range of glucose/maltodextrin per hour is around 7-80g based on the literature. So do the calculation around that value. 1 packet of old beta fuel and gel should be ok
Thank you very much everyone, I think I’m starting to get the picture now but let me make a few examples to see if I got it right:
Premise: I use BF during long MTB marathon races during which liquid carbs are my preference.
Old BF mix: I am getting c. 53g of malto and 27g of fructose. With an isotonic gel I would consume a total 73g of maltodextrin and get to 100g carb per hour.
Is this level of maltodextrin already too high? Should it stay at around 60g with the remaining half coming from fructose in order to get to 120g per hour (Essentially this would imply consuming the new solution with one of their new gels)?
Hydration is definitely an issue as I have experienced during humid races. If I were to adopt the new solution strategy then should I just drink a SiS hydro with no added carbs but only electrolytes?