I ❤️CARBS! (and so should you!)

how long was your workout and when is your next workout? Unless it is the following day just have a normal meal and continue to reload with complex carbs and veggies and protein

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No need to use high GI carbs post-workout. Definitely DO consume carbs post-workout though. Just get them from whatever you want. Colorful nutrient dense foods are always good, but ironically not all that necessary for performance. Mostly for living longer… maybe.

I would bet if we did a cadaver study (impossible without killing you lol) it would NOT be inflammation that causes the increase in weight that you’re likely to see after a training day, compared to a rest day. I’d bet it would be an increase of carbs and water storage in your gut (literal food waste holding water inside the lumen of your intestines) and increased water within your muscle cells and liver due to slightly increased glycogen storage. Water is stored with glycogen, FYI. I would bet that 20% might be inflammatory swelling, tops. Might actually be more like 5% of the variation in weight unless you’re extremely sore in every muscle group in your whole body.

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Ok thank you, I will just eat normally post workout then.

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I used to work with Cadavers for an old job, but never thought of doing this haha.

Reason I mentioned it is because I retain a lot of water/inflammation at certain points. My racing weight is say 66kg. After a block, this can rise up to 69kg and drop after two days, and I am experimenting with carb consumption and this recovery period. I noted also George Bennett said a similar thing in the Fast Labs pod too. Being a meagre physicist I have such a crappy understanding of this biology it makes me sad!

So @Nate_Pearson, I’ve heard you talk about fueling all workouts on the podcast and sometimes it sounded like you take in 90g of carbs/h on the bike irrespective of the kind of ride. Then again, y’all repeat the mantra fuel for the work. Somehow my brain is resistant to the idea of fueling zone 2 work (or do we all call it zone 1 now :)) with 90g of carbs per hour. Would the really be your fueling strategy for pettit?

I’m curious. For you personally, what is the internal resistance to fueling z2 work stemming from?

I sometimes feel like “I don’t need it” and I’d rather eat my kcal later rather than drink more sugar water. Is that it? or something else?

That’s what I sometimes think. I definitely fuel z2 with carbs , but more like 40ish grams per hour instead of that upper end. Prefer to have a bit more oatmeal or pasta instead (pre or post).

Edit: but for threshold work or higher, definitely the upper end

One reason to still target >40g/hr is that your gut will become more tolerant of the higher intakes at higher intensities and you’ll have more room for error where margins for error are typically thin (ie. harder efforts, races, dehydration, very high carb intake rates, etc).

Training the gut isn’t critical… but it is helpful. And it’s best done at lower intensities.

Always calculating tradeoffs though! :slight_smile:

For me, sometimes ease of weight maintenance or loss is in favor of reducing fueling rate from my typical 100-130g/hr down to 60-80g/hr for longer very easy rides. For short very easy rides I’ll typically use Table of Intra-workout Carb Needs Per Hour of Training as my guide and err on the low side if I foresee hunger being an issue later.

If I had a race coming up in the next 1-2 months though, I’d be on the very high end of those recommendations without fail.

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Yes, that makes sense.
But would that be the only reason? I would think that doing it during the 2-3 higher intensity sessions (per week) is quite some gut training in itself already.

Might just be a psychological thing. I’ve done it before during z2 rides and finished those rides every time thinking that it just wasn’t necessary

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You’re right, it is. Answer to your question:

No, the other bigger reason is that there is enhancement of carbohydrate oxidation ability with chronic high-carb fueling. Peak exogenous carb oxidation rates are improved chronically. That’s part of what played into me saying

but I clearly failed to mention that rationale there. Kind of an important one!

Other benefits include probably higher glycogen storage than could otherwise be achieved over a training phase with high volumes of training. Muscle damage and fatigue tend to prevent max glycogen storage rates post-exercise, so getting it in when you can, if your performance is a primary focus, is probably a great idea.

I don’t race seriously. I don’t care if I have a 3.2 W/kg or 3.3W/kg FTP. If I did care, I’d already have a 4.5 W/kg FTP because I’d train more.

So, what I mention about doing myself, applies more to the crowd for whom performance is kind of important, but also body composition maintenance, and also life in general.

For purely performance: high-carb fueling is almost always the ideal. If I cared for my own performance, I’d probably be running loads of n=1 experiments trying to push into the 140-170g/hr range.

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Thank you, very interesting!!
You’ve been very helpful on the forum and giving some great advice.

Maybe a good guest for the podcast @Jonathan ?

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With all the carbs people are stuffing in their bottles, how are people keeping them clean? Are there particular bottles that are easier to clean than others?

I use some Camelbak Podium bottles and found that they were prone to collecting black gunk in the cap.

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What I personally do: Thorough hot water rinse after every ride. Wash in dishwasher after 3-4 rides.

Zefal Magnum Bottles (32oz)

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quit those bottle; too hard to clean. Now I just buy bottles w the basic nozzle

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This is the problem with the whole macronutrient obsession. A donut is a great case in point. It’s carb and fat - most of its calories are coming from the fat, not the flour/sugar.

Definitely rinse immediately after the session, and every now and then sanitise with the tablets they use for baby’s bottles etc.

Dishwasher treatment is my go to, then chuck 'em after a while if they get really bad (though, should be aware of the environmental impact with going through more).

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I would tend to agree. zone 2 for not a long period: I don’t see the need for sugar water. Can eat more hearty real foods. See no need to load my system in that way.

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Yeah it gives me a consistent timing to compare from one day to the next.

My weight has steadily increased to about 88kg, this is approximate as the scale ready changes by up to 1 kg