Did the plans change?

Did you to an FTP test or manually adjust FTP recently?

That may have dropped your PL a bit or a lot, and could now be much lower than your actual abilities (especially so considering your completion of the workout above).

ramp test 7 days ago. up to 282 from 279. i havent done much sweet spot in a long time. so not surprised to see a 2.0 on my current level. 12 weeks ssb. 8 weeks build. now doing another 4 week build before specialty.

i was just shocked to see so many “easier” workouts throughout my new plan from previous plans when i updated it this morning and then to have this super challenging workout as my first one when i updated plan builder.

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Interesting…having bought a couple of Frank’s plans last weekend in the sale I was a little surprised that most of the intervals were on the shorter side and with longer rest periods than TR. Fits with your comment though, and maybe that completing a slightly easier workout is much better than failing a slightly tougher one…’.

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@IvyAudrain - quick question for you on these plans and AT…

If I only want to do 2 sessions per week from a plan and simply delete the other 3-4 from my calendar each week and sub in my own outside rides etc, will AT still adapt the remaining workouts each week? I quite like some of the progressions in the new speciality plans but being a masters athlete with 15-20hrs per week to train most weeks, none of the plans come close to how I train. Can I still get the benefit from the AT ‘brain’ building a plan like this?

Good question! So the current Adaptive Training beta includes full support for structured TrainerRoad Outside Workouts completed on Garmin head units. Adding support for ALL non-TrainerRoad workouts (including outside rides and races + Wahoo units) is a major priority for the future, but not in place yet.


yep - I understand that (sadly as a Wahoo user), but was wondering if I’ll get the AT benefit and adaptive suggestions for the 2 remaining indoor workouts pulled from the plan? Right now I dont have workouts scheduled in the calendar so theres nothing for it to adapt and I simply create and use my own. I only see the results and progressions but obviously dont get suggested adaptions that way.

Yes! Until we account for those unstructured outside rides though, the adaptations wont be able to speak to the full scope of the work you’re doing is the only downfall. This is why this feature is HIGH on our priority list!!

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I’ve mentioned this in other threads. I started FasCat’s SSB2/SSB3 in February 2020 and despite doing shorter intervals went out and did something like a 1x50 threshold effort the end of March 2020, just nine days after a field test and FTP bump. Personally I’ve come to believe the minimum effective dose is a lot lower than many think. And that aerobic endurance (zone2) is underrated and continues to be thought of as boring and junk miles because who wants to go slow?

Here is some of my n=1 data that shows going heavy on zone2 over the last year:

Color coding:

  • green is zone2/zone1
  • yellow is tempo, sweet spot, and lower threshold
  • red is threshold and above

A bit of leap of faith to go close to doing ~80% zone2 work. And it took a lot of patience - seriously who enjoys going outside for 2-3 hours and slow rolling on the flats at 15-17 miles per hour? Easier to do that outside vs inside, but the struggle is real #ZoneDiscipline

As an aerobic hard gainer, I was bouncing off the walls happy this past weekend after going out and absolutely smashing a climb:

my coach reviewed today and bumped FTP to 264 and we both believe this is just the beginning. In my mind that climb, & other recent short threshold efforts, served to reinforce the value of all the aerobic endurance work. Subjectively I feel this past last year has established a deeper foundation than the one achieved in early 2017 (leading to ~280W FTP). But memory is a funny thing, and while some power:HR comparison data is compelling there is conflicting data. Time will tell.

Coming full circle, about a year ago I came to the realization that ‘less is more’ = less intervals, more max efforts, and ‘fresh is faster’ = more zone2 supports higher power outputs. My data from averaging ~8 hour/week continues to reinforce that view.

The new TrainerRoad plans look better to my eyes. Experiment and see for yourself if less is more, if fresh is faster. Seems to me that if you’ve got a near term event then stay the course. Otherwise folks should give the new plans a chance. And if you mostly train indoors, do a block or two or three and then be sure to go outside/Zwift-not-Erg/RGT-not-Erg and put down some really hard efforts to test your fitness.


amen! Preaching to the converted on z2 benefits! My year so far…

Screenshot 2021-05-11 at 21.32.39

I am however guilty of falling into the ‘more is more’ trap when it comes to time and number of reps of intervals on those days. Something to work on…

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Have you been at ~8 hours/wk over the course of all the plans on that chart?

No. It’s an incomplete picture.

For sure. In my “training” there are at least a half dozen variables that ought to be captured in any snapshot of my progress. Still, it’s a really interesting chart. I appreciate you sharing it and your experiences.

In the next day or two I’ll try and capture some of the other stuff. Something like 2016 was 370 hours, then 2020 was 340 hours, … and the AACC podcast led me to believe I could reduce hours, so 2018 was less, 2019 had challenges, etc etc.

How long is your longest Z2 ride (duration)? You still need overload to force adaptations. At Z2 that means well more than 2 hours at a time for the long weekly ride. Would love to do that but family commitments limit my weekend rides to max 2 hours, and mostly before the household awakes.

2 hours mid-week and whatever I can swing on the weekends. Bad allergies this spring so my weekend (Fri/Sat) has been 5-6 hours of z2 plus “stuff”

Looks like HV XCO Specialty plans have been tweaked again from their initial rollout on May 10th. TSS continues to get lower. Leading into my “A” race I’m just trusting these new plans :crossed_fingers:. If nothing else I’ll be fresher!

I didn’t get a full comparison of the weeks before “updating plan”, but I noticed my workout this past Thursday went from Lion Rock to The Chimneys +2… They’re very similar workouts when it comes to TSS, intensity and intended adaptation. But Chimneys +2 lacks a few mid-set micro-recoveries and corresponding additional hard-starts and set-finishers.

Correction these were the Saturday rides.

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@IvyAudrain , I’ve got a Garmin, I want unstructured outdoor ride “credit” before anyone with a Weeho! gets credit for anything they do outside. :crazy_face:

IE, I commute on my number 1 bike, and its probably not much, 18-25 tss in 24-32 minutes each way, but I sometimes hit a huge spike in a sprint. Or my 2-3 hour riverside path ride (still with a PM) has to count for something in the “endurance” zone, right?

AT seems like a great big-data problem solver, but for this “LV” guy, it doesn’t make sense until it takes into account my “extra” riding - even if I don’t have a blue target to match (which would be nearly impossible in the outdoor environment I live in) the time in zone numbers have to be usable, right?

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I think this statement goes a bit far. AT does still work and make sense without knowing about your extra riding - but it will be even better once it does. Right?