@toribath That’s EPIC! rest up and recover, you’ve earned some downtime!
@adenega I’m not sure how the algorithms work, but on both the 935 and 955 my estimates are about the same. It would seem that if I’m doing 5km type training, the 5km estimate is reasonable. Likewise, when I do 21km training, that estimate is reasonable. That said, they’re usually a bit on the slow/conservative side. It’s been so long since I raced, I forget what happened to the estimates post race.
@AgingCannon Consistency is indeed key even on super low volume. The best use of my Garmin on race day is to keep me from going out too fast. For the first few km I do as the Garmin says even though it makes me feel like I’m walking. Need to let that adrenaline and whatnot settle down.
Great stuff everyone! Keep moving along during the summer touching on speed w/strides and/or short intervals until fall when the temps allow for sustained intervals.
Other than by watching the “pace” field fairly obsessively… how?
FWIW, for most of the race I looked only at a single data screen with three fields: current pace top, current HR middle, average pace bottom (which makes HR slightly larger as it’s the center field).
Race predictions on my Garmin are pretty believable (Fenix7) , though only been using it less than a month but it does have a load of data to look at if it goes back at all! They are comparable to my Stryd race predictions though Garmin ones are a little more conservative. Around a minute difference for 10k. Did open the legs for a 10k a while back, could have pushed a bit more and that time was only 90 seconds off my Stryd prediction. Think if I’d gone deeper, not been on a undulating trail I may have beat the prediction.
Unfortunately Stryd is now using my Garmin power and it’s predictions are now way out, it’s knocked 10minutes off my 10K prediction! Can’t be bothered with all the hassle of the pod anymore and going to learn the Garmin power zones. So going forward it will be the Garmin predictions I use and pretty happy with the current list it gives.
I have a question for you folks. I’ve just finished this years big bike race (40mile MTB). I’m targeting a marathon in December (CIM). I’ve been planning on shutting the biking down for the most part until December. Running 5-6 days per week with 2-3 strength training sessions. This is all with a goal of doing my first Full IM next year. The IM is IM California in October so I’ll have 10 months to train. I’ve got my FTP to an all time high and now I’m freaking out about losing all my bike fitness over the next 6 months. Any advice? Stay the course, gain the fitness back next year? Try to integrate some cycling (that will be difficult). Anyone do this and have an idea of how bad their bike fitness got from 6 months off?
I ride once a week as part of my running training. A nice long mtb or road ride, alone or in company provides a welcome change and a smashing fitness boost. A 4-6hr run would kill your legs but as a nice steady ride means I can run the following day.
If your goal is an IM, I would not recommend taking 6 months off of the bike. 1 or 2, sure, but not 6. I would continue to bike up to the last 6-8 weeks of your marathon build where you’ll be in the biggest run volume.
The biking doesn’t need to be rigidly structured, it doesn’t need to be more than 3 times a week and I would to temper the intensity work done to once a week.
When you’re running 6 days a week and on a 7 day cycle, it’s going to look something like this
Day 1: Rest
Day 2: Short Length Run
Day 3: Workout or Med Length Run
Day 4: Short Length Run
Day 5: Med Length Run
Day 6: Short Length Run
Day 7: Long Run
I would pair a workout like Petit w/ one or two of the short workouts and a Tempo or SS workout on the run workout day or the Med length run day (hard days hard).
Something like this.
Day 1: Rest
Day 2: Short + 60 Endurance Ride or Strength
Day 3: Workout or Med + Tempo/SS Workout
Day 4: Short + 60’ Endurance Ride
Day 5: Med + Strength
Day 6: Short
Day 7: Long Run
When you get up to 40 to 50 MPW, then start to phase out the bike and focus on the run.
For sure your FTP will drop, but that’s no big deal. FTP isn’t that important in IM. It’ll also bounce back quickly when you get back to biking post-marathon.
I wouldn’t call it obsessive, but I do check the pace a lot during the first few km especially the first km. During that first km, I’ll check it every few hundred meters until I’m right around the pace I want. Note, I use lap pace. So, pace changes depending on how far you are into the lap can take a bit to show up. In any case, it’s how I run my intervals and whatnot normally and am used to it. After a few steady km, I’m usually locked into my race pace w/either a group and/or my own internal rhythm only looking at my watch when it vibrates for each km split.
Distance, lap pace, total elapsed time are the 3 fields I display when running.
For me it’s lap pace, current pace and HR. Having lap + current helps catching drifts up/down earlier. I look at it maybe 1-2 per km, in addition to looking at the pace for each km as it ends. HR is just to make sure I’m not in the process of blowing up early.
Yikes. Supposed to be doing a 15k trail race this weekend but ya boi is stupid and missed the entry cutoff, so guess who got a 5k TT instead?
Was just a C race so not too disappointed about that (haven’t been running enough trails anyway), but I suspect a hard parkrun with no top-end fitness to speak of might be some kind of cosmic punishment. Been pretty light on the hard sessions while I’ve been getting back into training and adjusting to the volume again, so definetly going to be ugly.
(on the bright side we’ve just had a new course pop up, so might be possible to snag a record before the actually fast people show up )
Did this back in May but DNF’d this year after having a great race and completing it last year. I was fitter as well! Reason was the heat, managed 33km 2000m of the 55km 3500m. After second ascent of Snowdon and descent I called it a day, knew I’d never make it to the end. The Sun and heat just zapped the strengthen out of me. First hot day of year and I’d Spent all winter/spring running in the cold and wet and then there was this first day of summer in the mountains anyway, knew the right thing to do was withdraw, dizzy, stumbling, so I did.
Anyway on Wednesday I saw that Friday’s weather forecast was a damp morning and clearing as day went on in Snowdonia/Eryri. So I put in a days leave and decided without a taper or any prior planning to go and do the course again, self support, all food and water carried, no cut offs, just me, and my pack in the mountains. Got up at 4am, left a 4:30am arrived at 6:45am and off running for 7am. It pretty much rained all day, at no point did it clear up, windy on mountain summits, but that’s my kind of running weather. Managed the course of 54.5km 3476m in 12.5 hours. Two Snowdon/Yr Wyddfa ascents, Lanberis side and Watkins side, then another couple of lumps!
Managed to run about 5 hours of it, rest was speed hiking because it was too steep or rocks to wet, ground too boggy… normal mountain trail stuff. Just the one bad fall on a slippy boulder, but I bounced well ! Had a great day out and was more rewarding than the actual events, just no medal at the end or crowd but £140 better off! Set off back a 8pm and home for 10:30pm. More of these will be planned.
Yes was careful and good advice for others too thank you, did have a planned stop halfway for a much deserved McDonalds and coffee and a good assessment of myself. Did consider camping that night but bed and shower was too appealing
I’ve done an audax in the past, near 22 hours on the bike and that day travelling back afterwards I glad it wasn’t a long journey. Won’t let myself do that again, so do consider that side and if I had started to feel tired or driving at any point felt wrong I would pulled over and rested/slept.
Form question! Anyone have any advice for getting more power/extension though the back of the stride? Working on some hill sprints at the moment and my coach commented on my lack thereof
I’m more of a forefoot/high turnover runner and at 5 foot FA I doubt I’ll ever manifest Kipchoge-level strides, but I’m sort of inclined to agree with him- feels sort of awkward and like I can’t get the power down properly during those sorts of efforts. Suspect the hill sprints might be the most helpful thing anyway, but wondering if there’s any strength/drill type stuff that might support that? (ended up fairly underweight recently and lost a lot of muscle/power as a result, so I suspect there’s probably some low-hanging fruit there)
Hill sprints. Hill running when no hill sprints on the menu for the week. As for the gym, you want hinge exercises, e.g., deadlift, single leg deadlift.
There are drills you can do. I try a few years ago and it was a mix bag… I was able to change to more of underpronator/front of the foot striker than dragging my heels like I used to (now the back of my shoes stay pretty much like new condition while the side get trashed).
I did try to change and add more reach so i could lower my cadence (currently 195 @ E pace, 220 at race pace). But afrter many weeks i gave up… nothing changed…
I’m starting to feel improvement: not yet faster times, but less fatigue and easier recovery. I’m comfortable at a consistent 250 weekly TSS right now, and very gradually building because I’m not training for any event, just aiming to run and bike forever, and get faster at both over time. So I think I’ve settled into a good weekly cycle… what do y’all think?
Mon - short Z2 run, 30 min
Tue - medium Z2 run, 55 minutes
Wed - intense bike (SS, TH, VO2 as needed and with progression)
Thu - medium Z2 run, 55 minutes + 30 min strength session
Fri - short Z2 run, 30 min
Sat - Z2 bike (1hr now, will extend to 3hr)
Sun - long Z2 run, 80 min + 30 min strength session
Right now I’m abbreviating some runs and the Z2 bike ride to cap at around 250-300 weekly TSS. Over time, doing a sweetspot progression or threshold/vo2max work on the bike and extending the Z2 bike ride will raise the weekly TSS almost to 500. Also, right now I’m doing about 5-6 hours/week, which would gradually grow to about 8.5 hours/week. I expect that growth in weekly TSS to be less than 5% per week and take at least six months… no more overtraining for me if I can help it!
I’m trying to run as close as I can to the BarryP style (2 short runs, 2 medium runs, 1 long run), and do two bike rides (1 intense, 1 Z2) so I’m doing something every day. Again, the goal is to build the kind of habit I can continue forever.
Does anyone see any obvious red flags? Am I missing something? So long as I’m careful not to increase the workload too fast and overtrain, does all of this look reasonable?
While TSS is a metric many like to track, not all TSS is equal. That is an entirely different discussion so I’ll leave it at that. Key points you made are that you’ve been consistent, feel less fatigue, and improved recovery. Forget about the TSS. Keep gradually increasing your volume. For example, take the long to 90min and the medium to 60min. This isn’t much of a change from where you are now. I’d do both this week. Then stay there while working to gradually lengthen the Sat bike towards 3hrs.
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but £140 better off! Set off back a 8pm and home for 10:30pm. More of these will be planned.
