That assumes that the currently entered FTP is “close” already.
My concern comes from the fact that the entered FTP may well be incorrect at any point in time.
It may be higher than your actual ability. Striving for a target that is unrealistic for any number of reasons (prior sickness, derailed training, guestimation, etc.) may lead to unhappiness if the rider is unable to meet that “minimum” value due to poor expectations.
It may be lower than your actual ability. Some people may end up bailing after reaching the “target”. Things like big power or heart rate numbers are known to throw some riders off their effort when they think they have “gone too far”.
My point is that a “target” is only useful if you already know it is close to accurate. That is essentially like the remnant of the old 20-min and 8-min FTP tests, where you had to settle into a power and hold it. You usually had to have some idea of the power you had to hold, and adjust a bit on the fly as the reality unfolded around the prior expectation.
That’s why the Ramp has a serious advantage. Just hop on and pedal until you pop. Put in a 15-25 minute effort (depending on the potential variance between the starting and actual FTP) and you don’t have to “think” about the pacing or effort.
It seems odd to me to partially return to the old way of looking at time and pacing again in a test. I can see how it might help in some cases, but I can’t help but think that it may also lead to being limiting as well.
if you look at the clock and at 18.30 your RPE is higher than you expected, then it may lead you to mentally quit early, conversely if you have built yourself up to suffer and you feel a little better than expected, it will spur you on… inner chimp and all that.
Well, just did ramp test, again can’t make it even to break even, got to 19mins and a few sec, giving me ftp of 268. I’ve been going on for weeks that ssb1 hve has felt too easy for me at 275, so I’m upping myself to 280 anyway, it’s modest and I’m certain I’ll handle it fine
Just finished my Ramp Test to start SSB-MV2. Personal anecdotes are that covering certain numbers this time around really helped. I only kept the colored power bar visible and cadence in an effort to try and keep things in range and smooth. At one point I did look at the lower graph and noticed that I had reached beyond the 19:30 mark and that gave me motivation to keep going for how I felt. Saw an 11.5% increase in FTP. Interested to see how these next few workouts will feel with that big of a jump.
21:20 in my test last night and an 8.8% increase in FTP.
I rode it blind other than having cadence visible to maintain steady speed (ERG in my Kickr, small ring and mid cassette). I ran power up well past my prior FTP. I hit a max HR equal to my last blind test, and nearly hitting my peak indoors.
Legs felt taxed, but not pushed to the limit as I popped without dropping to low cadence as I’ve done in the past. Seemed to be a cardio pop this time.
There is real doubt in every second of the test, especially blind, I constantly wonder if I hit or exceeded the 19:30 barrier. I wish I didn’t even know that time.
My conclusion for me… I NEED to do them this way because I know I would have pulled out earlier in seeing the power, HR, or time I did last night. Any could have seemed like enough or too much.
As it was, I was chasing riders and the course on Zwift, and had a few mental ghosts for additional inspiration. I’m happy with the results and my settled method for testing. That is key. Whether you like no data or all of it, figure out your needs and lock in to that.
same for me, my heart rate was elevated early on in the test due to my white coat syndrome, which freaked me out a bit, until I convinced myself that I’ve worked at that wattage before at a much lower HR, and stopped peaking at the bloody screen!
Agree, the ramp test is much more repeatable than the 20 or 8, but still needs some thought to get an accurate figure to apply to training. Based on my RPE on last night’s workout I think my new FTP is pretty tight
Not worried about knowing the 19:30 mark… I set my aim to 20:30 and I give it all to try and get there, if I ever do then I’ll reset my aim higher for next one… I think getting 20:30 is going to be nigh impossible with monthly testing, that’s why I like that target, because if it was easy to get there, I’d probably quit when I did… you were really close! Nice one…
Don’t think I could do it blind, does makes sense to me to do it that way… maybe I may try that with doing my volcano orbits tip (Ramp Test Tips & Tricks - #183 by FatherDamo2) …once I find the perfect starting point it might be worth doing blind…
Do like doing the Ramp on Zwift, riders don’t have much clue what your doing, the odd one you over take tries to stay with you, it’s great to see how long they stay sucking your back wheel as you “ramp” it up… unknown to them your going all out until you pop!
I have considered, but never did, alter my name in Z to include something like TR Ramp Test, as an indicator to explain my purpose there. An FTP test in Z actually shows that fact and I try do drop a thumb when I see someone on one. Share a bit of props for a hard effort.
Yeah, since the majority of my time in Zwift is done running TR workouts. I expect people see the odd on/off behavior and wonder what’s up on occasion. They can see and understand those actions from those in Z because it indicates an active workout via the avatar screen, as well as the workout tag on the rider list. But there is no indicator for us doing the workouts driven from outside of Z.
I used that strategy for the first time yesterday and just told myself I had to get to 19:30 minimum. After 19:30 every second was an improvement on my FTP. I thought that was a huge motivator to get to 21:30.
My FTP went from 265 (3.4 w/kg) to 287 (3.7 w/kg).
EDIT: what actually started creeping in my head as I rounded the 21:00 mark was “how in the “F” am I going to do be able to complete the next TR plan if my FTP gets any higher!” . That may have subconscious made me stop a few seconds sooner, lol.
I was reflecting a bit on my ramp test from yesterday, where I basically gave up at 19min when the resistance was making me slow my cadence and my HR was just passing into the painfully hard zone (it was 179, and I think my HR gets to like 182 when I’m at my absolute limit). I think the mental aspect of overcoming discomfort is huge, could i have accepted the new level of pain and tried to push through it as opposed to just caving? perhaps. And I think it’s relative, I think newer folks would think sweet spot would be impossibly hard if they haven’t experienced those sensations before. So I think exposure to the upper limits of pain and knowing what to expect and power through it might be something folks can work on. I really ought to try one blind because I certainly do start to focus on the time and HR the further I go
I did 6x10min sweet spot intervals based on 285 today, and felt great. I would have gotten 285 had a pushed through 1 more minute and maybe gotten to my real max, rather than bailing as soon I started to feel the proverbial wall
I cover HR for that very reason during Ramp Tests. HR is shaping your perception that you are “at your limit”, so I think subconsciously it tells you to stop because you have no more. You have more!!!
Yes i agree with this…i usually know what stage i want to get to but then will push to the very limit once i’ve reached it just to eeek out whatever i have left.
Thanks. Happy with my progress, that is essentially returning to a prior FTP range after a blood donation and 2 weeks of sickness. But it is the highest FTP I have tested at this point in the season. So I am hopeful that I have a higher start for the continued training and my events in the spring and summer.
On the testing, I run TR and the Ramp from my phone, connected to my trainer and other sensors. Then I launch Zwift and pair all the same with one exception. I uncheck the “Controlled” trainer box, so Z is only getting power, but not attempting to control the trainer.
I’ve just done my third ramp test and noticed something interesting when comparing to my previous two tests.
My FTP has increased every time, but in the first two ramp tests my HR was 2-3 beats from my max HR at failure (191 and 192). Today my FTP increased from 319 to 328, however my HR at failure was only 187. Can I read anything into this?
. That may have subconscious made me stop a few seconds sooner, lol.