Wow, opposite here. Something like 14mph in little chainring for the first 35 minutes of this TR workout, and 21mph when in big chainring for the 2nd half of the workout:
something like 50x17 in big ring, and 34x17 in small ring
From talking with Wahoo support (and support article), the Kickr 2017 direct drive will report speed based in flywheel. So bigger gear or higher cadence = faster spinning flywheel = higher speed reported.
There is a Kickr setting called “Erg Mode Speed Simulation” that will have Kickr report power based speed, but it has been tricky to get it working reliably (Wahoo doesn’t officially support it with 3rd parties).
Yes I use Erg. But I use a MTB on the trainer, so 32 up front only and my gear selections are on the cassette. So when I switch gears it’s effecting inertia only slightly (24 to 18) compared to going from 50 to a 34. Maybe that has something to do with it.
I also did Taylor last night and was also missing target by around 20 watts using a Tacx Vorex and Assioma Duo pedals. I do not expect the Vortecx to handle 5 second surges like in Ebbetts or Clark but expect it to be there or there about for 30 second internvals. I always do my workouts with 101% intensity but was having to increase that to 103% due to the shortfall in maintaining the watts throughout the interval.
Hoping this is a good place to ask this rather than start a new thread.
Having just received first power meter (assiomas) and having previously used power from kickr snap. Would best thing to do going forward is also connect power meter to trainerroad - but not do powermatch until next ramp test?
If my understanding is right - the snap still set it’s watts in erg mode as it did before. But the watts on the screen will be from the power meter? So I should get some idea if one is reading higher / lower
And then next ramp test switch over to powermatch?
Who cares if one is reading higher/lower than the other? Seriously! Regardless if the Snap is higher or lower, I would bet that the Assiomas are more accurate (i.e., the Snap is wrong). However, some people will always pick the one w/the higher number as being correct because their ego needs the larger FTP
You should definitely pair the Assiomas as well as the Kickr and use power match. Why? Well, your Assiomas are your outside power source/number. By using it indoors as well, you have power numbers that are both consistent and thus meaningful.
You can wait to switch or you can substitute your next Tue workout w/the Ramp test. You will not ruin your plan by doing so.
Eventually you want to use the assiomas as your power source either via powermatch or using Ant+ control direct from the pedals to the trainer. I’ve dabbled with both and prefer power match.
You don’t need to be in a rush to test, IMO. If you don’t want to disrupt your plan, just wait till your next test. Otherwise, you can sub the Ramp Test in for your normal Tuesday workout and maybe add so,e zone 2 or Sweet Spot work after for equivalent TSS. You’ll still get some VO2max time in that way, with minimal disruption to training. That said, if you’re testing in a couple of weeks, I would just wait. Not a big deal either way… and Im sure you’re anxious to try out the new pedals.
Thanks I don’t think I communicated it well - I don’t care about what the actual number is (it’s just a number). What I do care about is that if I’ve been doing a plan and a interval in the past has been X ( and felt like that / had the desired training effects of that) I don’t want to then being trying to do that interval again - but because the power number is different - in effect doing X +/- 10%
Previously used my Stages L with Tacx Vortex. Short intervals…up to 1 minute… were terrible…to the point of being a waste of time which prompted me to purchase a Neo. When it arrived, I subscribed to TR so never actually used the Vortex with TR’s Power Matching.
Quite impressed with how closely and quickly the Neo tracks. It’s not perfect but it’s good. Initially I saw a very slight over compensation spike when a high power interval occurred which usually lasted about 1-2 secs, but since I’ve switched to lowered gears this initial spike has disappeared and it tracks accurately almost immediately.
On a side note, I wish the turbo manufacturers would introduce a port to allow cables for connectivity.
I think you missed his point. @tcrick is trying to keep consistent training by doing intervals/workouts using the same measure of power. So it doesn’t matter if the Assiomas is higher/lower, but it will likely be different and thus throw off his training zones.
So Yes @tcrick, connect the Assiamos, but maybe to your bike computer and leave the Kickr Snap as is controlling your ERG for now. You could connect your Assiamos to your bike computer as you train and see the offset in power compared to your Kickr power. Would be good to know how close the power numbers track (between the two devices) depending on the workouts and different zones. For instance, the Kickr could read low at 50% FTP, be equal at 100% then read high at 120%. That would be good information to know relative to your previous FTPs so you can track progress month over month and year over year. For instance, if your Kickr Snap consistently reads 20w higher than your Assiamos, then in theory you could assume all your previous FTPs on the Kickr Snap based on 75% of your 1 min power were 20 watts inflated. This would allow you to compare new Assiamos power numbers with old Kickr Snap numbers.
Then, assuming your Ramp Test isn’t too far away (withing a week or 2) you could then use the Assiomas and TR’s Powermatch going forward. I would also encourage you to use Powermatch a few times over the next week or so during some of your indoor z2 rides to ensure you have any bugs worked out. You don’t want to discover Powermatch is having issues the day of your ramp test and you have to fiddle around to get it to work right. Or maybe there is a reaction delay or other specific issue to your set up that you’d want to know before it’s test time.
Thanks - this is great and really helpful. Good tip on not using powermatch 1st on the ramp test. Luckily it’s lined up well with a recovery week next week
POWERMATCH IS JUNK!!!* @Nate_Pearson what is going on with PowerMatch. I was all excited to do my first ramp test with my new Quarq XX1 and PowerMatch. Instead I got power spikes throughout the ramp test as high as 30-40+ watts even when my cadence was consistent…
Then the final punch in the face was when I reached near the magical 19:30 mark of the ramp test I purposely started lowering my cadence to grind out the last minute or two. However, as my cadence dropped so did my power, as if PowerMatch wanted me to stay at 80-90 rpm. I like/need to grind out the end of ramp tests and can hold a low cadence and high power for a minute or so more. I thought that’s what I was doing as I had my head down not looking at my power. I was quite mad to lift up my head when I stopped only to see that PowerMatch didn’t match the power! My Kickr ERG always held the power no matter my cadence until it grinded me to a halt. Why can’t PowerMatch do the same @Nate_Pearson ??? So I spend all this money on my new Quarq and TR software can’t keep up?
What’s even more frustrating is that my cadence leveled out in the mid 50 rpms for the last 1:30 and still PowerMatch didn’t Match the ERG power. Why not?!!!
I’m pretty annoyed as I was expecting a decent FTP bump. Instead I just have to throw away this ramp test result and I’m at a lost on how to use PowerMatch going forward with TR. I previously tested out the Quarq (Kickr using ERG and PM on bike computer) and the PM read 2-5% higher at any given time and 2% higher normalized power for the same TR workout.
Welcome to my world, I would never use powermatch for an FTP test and only really use it for recovery rides, everything else is done in standard/resistance mode.
Really?! Talk about hyperbole! Powermatch works fine for me and probably the majority of TR users. I used it for years w/a Kickr and p2max combo. Nowadays, I have a Neo and p2max combo.
First, how about verifying your setup and providing more useful troubleshooting information. Since, you mentioned using Kickr ERG, I assume you are using a Kickr? So on to your problem… The Quarq and Kickr are both paired to TR. Powermatch is enabled. Is this correct?
What version of TR are you using?
What Kickr firmware are you using?
Quarq firmware updated?
Quarq battery status?
Are you ANT+ or Bluetooth?
If ANT+, are you using a USB extension cable?
In looking at your graphs, if you are expecting a smooth line, you need to reset your expectations. Your power output no matter how steady your cadence is will not get you a smooth line. If you were using the Kickr ERG and seeing smooth graphs, that is because the smoothing was enabled on the Wahoo side (via app) and thus producing really smooth pretty graphs albeit fake!
Here is a screenshot from of the Neo w/out Powermatch but using ERG mode:
Notice they both show variations in power. This is normal
That said, your last couple screenshots where the power drops way below the target is not normal. If you can provide some more info, maybe we can help you here. Otherwise, open a support ticket. They will probably ask for the same info
The power spikes don’t look that abnormal. However something was definitely wrong when your cadence slowed and power match didn’t correct. It should have been upping the resistance on the trainer.
I’ve seen this happen during a regular workout. I had to exit the workout and reboot my iPad. After that everything was fine. I have gotten into the habit of always shutting down my iPad after TR workouts and then booting back up before my next workout. This was suggested to me some time back for an unrelated issue by the TR support staff.
I think TR support needs to look at your files/log and see if they can figure out what happened. Sucks that it happened during a Ramp Test, but I suspect the issue is solveable.
FWIW I’ve been using PowerMatch with Kickr 2017 wheel off (direct drive) and Stages LR gen3 power meter. Working on everything. Only issues I’ve had is that gen2 Kickr thru 2017 use an optical sensor to estimate power, and therefore is susceptible sunlight, reflections, and even the shadow of my body from an overhead light. Fixed the problem once Wahoo finally (sheepishly) told me it was an issue, and had me put something non-reflective on the floor (black mat on concrete garage floor).
First, the OP title is POWERMATCH EXPERIENCE, and so I am giving the forum mine.” Second, I’m not looking for support, I use TrainerRoad Support for that. That’s great it works perfect for you, your n=1 experience is helpful.
Of course everything is updated regarding firmware and everything was calibrated prior to the Ramp Test during a Free Ride warm up, both the the Kickr Snap and the Quarq. Every variable is/was constant and accounted for, PowerMatch was the only change/addition.
No, I don’t expect a smooth power lines thanks, I understand how power smoothing and ERG works. That’s why I said ”spikes of 30-40+ watts” with a consistent cadence.
So if we’re done throwing jabs at each other maybe we can be of some use to this topic.
to lift up my head when I stopped only to see that PowerMatch didn’t match the power! My Kickr ERG always held the power no matter my cadence until it grinded me to a halt. Why can’t PowerMatch do the same 
