I have the same setup with Quarq Dzero on my bike and a Kickr 2018. My first ramp test failed because resistance was dropping to zero or wouldn’t bump up to the next step. I went back into the settings, found the PowerMatch, looked up what it is all about and immediately turned it off. My second ramp test had no problems.
Trying to do a tight feedback control loop over wireless and with other manufacturer’s hardware is just asking for neverending problems. Kudos to TR for attempting it though! I would put that feature in the experimental category and keep it there.
Did you go back to using the Kickr’s power and ignore your PM? My thought is to do several workouts having my bike computer use the PM. Then compare the two workout files and see if there is a consistent offset (ie: a percentage or X watts). Then I could set the offset manually in TR and not use PowerMatch. Or at lest I’d know my offset for outdoors.
Yes. I have chosen to just manually verify Kickr resistance with the Quarq via my head unit and let the Kickr do its own thing. Luckily, it matches very closely.
My test workout below, first half TR using Kickr ERG and second half TR using Quarq; difference in the first 45:00 portion (compared to bike computer) was NP of 191 (Kickr) versus 195 (Quarq). So 4 watts over 45:00 for about a 2% offset. If that stays constant over some more test workouts I’d be ok with that.
And if you look at my included screenshots, you will see “spikes” as well, some of which are +30W over the target power while I maintain a smooth cadence. The reality is our power output is not smooth even w/a smooth cadence. Powermatch is not going to make it any smoother. Again, those graphs look normal.
The lack of resistance when you drop the cadence near the end is a problem. Being that you’re on BLE to an iPad, it could have been bad luck/timing w/interference. Try a few more rides w/Powermatch to see if it was a one time issue. Perhaps, also try eliminating any interference such as 2.4GHz wifi since it uses the same frequency band as BLE. If not, you can either open a support ticket or not use Powermatch as some of the other user replies have stated.
Oh and one more thing that might be relevant. The day before my ramp test I did a spindown. After my ramp test failed and I was looking in the Kickr device settings on TR I noticed that there was no calibration data despite having done a spindown the previous day. So somehow TR had silently lost the calibration data. It might be a coincidence but TR had pushed a software update on the same day, so it might be that a TR software update loses any saved calibration data?
Still I would have thought that calibration data would be saved on the Kickr in which case the TR software is just losing track of the date of your last spindown.
You might have a constant offset. And if it’s only 2%, that is well within any reasonable expectation. If so, you would be lucky. Some Kickrs will drift over time as they warm up. Also, that was a rather steady state effort. If you were doing something like VO2max work, the, offset might be very different.
I’m into week 1 of SSB 2 mid volume, so I think I’ll do the next week or so testing ERG versus bike computer. That should get me plenty of variation in effort and FTP percentages.
Really weird because up till 2 days ago I was having a great experience with PowerMatch (Stages L & Neo1, on PC). But my last workout, I’ve had some of the exact issues mentioned by MI-XC…especially the part where I lowered my cadence (I actually stood up) and the power just remained low so I actually had to sit and increase cadence again.
Is there a log stored on my machine that I can go through? Wouldn’t mind having a look
Why do you say that? My first test showed a pretty consistent 6 watt offset once the trainer warmed up and that was also very close to the NP offset (5w) for the entire workout. Given that it was a steady effort (Pettit), I will test over several more workouts. Here is my Kickr’s Snap versus Quarq readings:
Wheel off Kickr 2017 and some tests were (mostly) showing a consistent offset, but others were different. Some positive offset, some negative offset. One where it went from positive to negative offset in same workout.
In other words, consistently inconsistent. Called Wahoo and the guy told me to do a spin down every workout.
PowerMatch for me, one source of truth (my crank PM) is really the only way…
Because several others have tested their smart trainers and power meter offsets in a similar fashion, and get reasonably consistent results on steady rides, but it falls apart on efforts with more disparity, and it generally grows as power increases. What might be a 5-6W offset at 180W for Pettit could double during Hunter or be all over the place during Bluebell. Simply put, others hoped to find what you hope to find, and no one I’m aware of has found offset consistent between trainer and PM. Good luck.
I noticed some of that with Pettit (see below) as the different wattages matched closer to each other than others. I have Ebbetts today, followed by Kaweah and Geiger+2 as my next 3 workouts. So I’ll see how those all compare.
It’s not about whether to use PowerMatch or not, it’s about using the “AUTO” or “MANUAL” settings of PowerMatch. I have no plans to “DISABLE” PowerMatch, but I’m curious if Auto or Manual is more accurate and consistent. Its my experience so far that the Auto PowerMatch is struggling with changes and I’m hoping Manual will be more reliable.
Just two quick questions. Is the new powermatch code in the PC version of TR as well? I only see mention of people using iOS and Android. Also, if powermatch worth it with a Tacx Neo? You can’t calibrate the Neo and it is supposed to always be within a couple of percent.
Thanks
Yes, the Neo is likely “accurate” and has no calibration, but that is no guarantee that it will match the power from your power meter. Power meters often DO NOT match power on smart trainers, regardless of the claims of accuracy by both parties.
If you plan to use the power meter data outside, that is the main reason to use PowerMatch when training inside.
Ebbetts will probably tell you a little bit regarding the big disparity for spikes. Something like Bluebell or Dade or Spencer where you level out at a higher power could show you the behavior between the two when power spikes from 40% to 120% then levels off for a minute or two. I think you’re going to find that it’s not consistent. Whether or not it’s “good enough” for you is, obviously, up to you.
My Powermatch experiences have largely been very good. That said, have you tried pairing the Quarq to the Kickr Snap via Ant+, using the Quarq to control power via the Wahoo App, then having the Kickr report power to your device via Bluetooth? It’s effectively the same thing as powermatch, but removes TrainerRoad from the equation. Some people like that option better; I’ve found it a little bit more cumbersome to set up and maintain than just using Powermatch in Auto.
No I haven’t tried that and is sounds like a pain to set up, especially since I have one bike that I take on and off the trainer weekly. Thanks, that may be an option, but I don’t want to go down that route.
