FWIW I’ve been using PowerMatch with Kickr 2017 wheel off (direct drive) and Stages LR gen3 power meter. Working on everything. Only issues I’ve had is that gen2 Kickr thru 2017 use an optical sensor to estimate power, and therefore is susceptible sunlight, reflections, and even the shadow of my body from an overhead light. Fixed the problem once Wahoo finally (sheepishly) told me it was an issue, and had me put something non-reflective on the floor (black mat on concrete garage floor).
First, the OP title is POWERMATCH EXPERIENCE, and so I am giving the forum mine.” Second, I’m not looking for support, I use TrainerRoad Support for that. That’s great it works perfect for you, your n=1 experience is helpful.
Of course everything is updated regarding firmware and everything was calibrated prior to the Ramp Test during a Free Ride warm up, both the the Kickr Snap and the Quarq. Every variable is/was constant and accounted for, PowerMatch was the only change/addition.
No, I don’t expect a smooth power lines thanks, I understand how power smoothing and ERG works. That’s why I said ”spikes of 30-40+ watts” with a consistent cadence.
So if we’re done throwing jabs at each other maybe we can be of some use to this topic.
BTW, everything was setup Bluetooth to an IPad.
I have the same setup with Quarq Dzero on my bike and a Kickr 2018. My first ramp test failed because resistance was dropping to zero or wouldn’t bump up to the next step. I went back into the settings, found the PowerMatch, looked up what it is all about and immediately turned it off. My second ramp test had no problems.
Trying to do a tight feedback control loop over wireless and with other manufacturer’s hardware is just asking for neverending problems. Kudos to TR for attempting it though! I would put that feature in the experimental category and keep it there.
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Did you go back to using the Kickr’s power and ignore your PM? My thought is to do several workouts having my bike computer use the PM. Then compare the two workout files and see if there is a consistent offset (ie: a percentage or X watts). Then I could set the offset manually in TR and not use PowerMatch. Or at lest I’d know my offset for outdoors.
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Yes. I have chosen to just manually verify Kickr resistance with the Quarq via my head unit and let the Kickr do its own thing. Luckily, it matches very closely.
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My test workout below, first half TR using Kickr ERG and second half TR using Quarq; difference in the first 45:00 portion (compared to bike computer) was NP of 191 (Kickr) versus 195 (Quarq). So 4 watts over 45:00 for about a 2% offset. If that stays constant over some more test workouts I’d be ok with that.
And if you look at my included screenshots, you will see “spikes” as well, some of which are +30W over the target power while I maintain a smooth cadence. The reality is our power output is not smooth even w/a smooth cadence. Powermatch is not going to make it any smoother. Again, those graphs look normal.
The lack of resistance when you drop the cadence near the end is a problem. Being that you’re on BLE to an iPad, it could have been bad luck/timing w/interference. Try a few more rides w/Powermatch to see if it was a one time issue. Perhaps, also try eliminating any interference such as 2.4GHz wifi since it uses the same frequency band as BLE. If not, you can either open a support ticket or not use Powermatch as some of the other user replies have stated.
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Oh and one more thing that might be relevant. The day before my ramp test I did a spindown. After my ramp test failed and I was looking in the Kickr device settings on TR I noticed that there was no calibration data despite having done a spindown the previous day. So somehow TR had silently lost the calibration data. It might be a coincidence but TR had pushed a software update on the same day, so it might be that a TR software update loses any saved calibration data?
Still I would have thought that calibration data would be saved on the Kickr in which case the TR software is just losing track of the date of your last spindown.
I’m OCD with consistent setup and do a spindown and calibrate before EVERY workout, yes, even recovery workouts. So that wasn’t my issue.
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You might have a constant offset. And if it’s only 2%, that is well within any reasonable expectation. If so, you would be lucky. Some Kickrs will drift over time as they warm up. Also, that was a rather steady state effort. If you were doing something like VO2max work, the, offset might be very different.
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I’m into week 1 of SSB 2 mid volume, so I think I’ll do the next week or so testing ERG versus bike computer. That should get me plenty of variation in effort and FTP percentages.
I’m going to have someone look into your ride and see what was going on. This might be PowerMatch but it might be your ERG trainer.
@Bryce @larry Please have some on TT look at this ride and put in an issue if there is an issue on our side. Please have someone message me the results.
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Okay, I looked at your log file. We were telling your kickr to increase resistance that entire time when it kept going down as you dropped your cadence.
In other wards, power match was trying to save you :).
I don’t know why the kickr didn’t increase your load. The logs show that the kickr received the messages and there wasn’t an error in sending it.
It might be related to your cadence drop. I’d use the Wahoo app and make sure your kickr’s firmware is updated.
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Really weird because up till 2 days ago I was having a great experience with PowerMatch (Stages L & Neo1, on PC). But my last workout, I’ve had some of the exact issues mentioned by MI-XC…especially the part where I lowered my cadence (I actually stood up) and the power just remained low so I actually had to sit and increase cadence again.
Is there a log stored on my machine that I can go through? Wouldn’t mind having a look
I did that before the ramp and just verified again that it is up to date.
I am now now testing the offset while doing workouts with the Kickr Snap controlling ERG and the Quarq connected to my head unit. I did Pettit today and the Quarq consistently reads 5-6 watts higher. I’m charting all the workouts using DC Rainmakers’s PM comparison tool and will post the results after a weeks worth of workouts.
If the offset is consistent, I will just set the powermatch offset manually and not use Auto. I assume this would solve any future problems with powermatch @Nate_Pearson? Or will this not help?
The odds that your offset will be consistent at various power levels are slim, I’m afraid.
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Why do you say that? My first test showed a pretty consistent 6 watt offset once the trainer warmed up and that was also very close to the NP offset (5w) for the entire workout. Given that it was a steady effort (Pettit), I will test over several more workouts. Here is my Kickr’s Snap versus Quarq readings:
Wheel off Kickr 2017 and some tests were (mostly) showing a consistent offset, but others were different. Some positive offset, some negative offset. One where it went from positive to negative offset in same workout.
In other words, consistently inconsistent. Called Wahoo and the guy told me to do a spin down every workout.
PowerMatch for me, one source of truth (my crank PM) is really the only way…
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Because several others have tested their smart trainers and power meter offsets in a similar fashion, and get reasonably consistent results on steady rides, but it falls apart on efforts with more disparity, and it generally grows as power increases. What might be a 5-6W offset at 180W for Pettit could double during Hunter or be all over the place during Bluebell. Simply put, others hoped to find what you hope to find, and no one I’m aware of has found offset consistent between trainer and PM. Good luck.
