Other than FTP, What are some subtle ways to see if you're gaining fitness?

Share your experiences.

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My wife complains about my bird-like upper body?


Stomach is flatter, legs feel bigger and solid. Face looks more gaunt :smile:.


Sitting on climbs chatting away to your partner who looks like they are suffering a bit.

It’s a lovely feeling. :heart_eyes:


Cycling faster?


The number on the scale continues to go down :sweat_smile:

Going to bed hungry has become the norm

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Damn, i am that other guy! :joy:


Longer TTE. Or more informally, “longer” intervals are easier than previous weeks.


Amen brother! If there’s a sure-fire way to demoralize others on a climb, just look relaxed, have a little chat, take your hands off the bars and casually pull a snack from your pocket, unwrap it, lick your fingers, stuff the wrapper back in your pocket, then casually grab the bars again. Folks hate that !


Can jog up six flights of stairs at work without HR hitting VO2 max levels…

Can’t say I’m there yet

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I know we are all mostly focused on FTP and w/kg as a measurement of how we are doing in our training.

I am interested to hear how else you measure your fitness/improvements especially outside race season etc. I know it can be straight forward in a 10 TT to see you are doing better if you can beat your PB on the same course/same conditions or perhaps in a race.

In the off-season when so much of our training is done indoors/outdoors working towards the future, I sometimes think I’m going no where and don’t feel like I’m improving despite being consistent and following the plan.

How do you clarify if you are infact improving or not (outside the various Ramp/Fitness tests).???

@Peadarcurran just off the top of my head:

  • Aerobic HR based decoupling.
  • Speed time distance in general.
  • Standard Power profile increase/decrease.
  • Duration of any number of power metrics.
  • How many times you can achieve any number of power metrics.
  • Time of recovery needed between intervals.

I wish TR had a simple ATL/CTL tracker. Or is there one that I’m overlooking?


The six week rolling average in the calendar is somewhat similar to CTL (but doesn’t take into account diminishing effect of workouts far into the past) and the 1 week cumulative total is close to ATL, but it’s only correct at the end of a completed week.

If you can be bothered filling in a spreadsheet, I have one here: TSS spreadsheets with ATL, CTL, Form



There is not. They have said they have no plans for it. But, I wouldn’t be surprised if it isn’t added down the road. It’s something most of us would like added. The only reason I keep my TP account. Would I pay extra for ctl/atl - probably. But not much more. Though, my HRVTraining will track this stuff as well in a few more weeks. So there’s that. And it’s only $10.
Jonathon is using Whoop right now which does all of that. If TR had it, then they wouldn’t need Whoop.

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As @tshortt describes, or in more lay terms - fatigue resistance; ability to hang at any power level at or below FTP longer. It’s easy to see and feel on sustained climbs.

If you sync your TR workouts with Strava, take a look at the free Elevate plugin… it provides a decent fitness/fatigue/form chart.


I do think that TR does a good job with plans, workouts, the instructional text within the workouts, and just overall message (podcast, forum, etc) of emphasizing fatigue resistance. However, just judging from the many questions on the forum as well as my own misunderstanding when I started power-based training a few years ago, it’s a shame that’s there is not something on the Profile page like:

"FTP/TTE" - (or some fatigue resistance metric).

TTE is of course a WKO4 term, so you could come up with your own term or just license that one (like FTP, TSS, etc).

I don’t think TTE is just another metric like many that you can get in GC or WKO4. It’s equally as important, if not more so for some riders, as FTP.

The challenge is how would you measure it. It’s hard enough getting everybody to do a Ramp Test. Now you’re also going to ask them to “go to failure”. Might be a hard sell. Can you imagine threads where ppl go: “my FTP stayed the same but I blew out my TTE by 30mins! yay me!” instead of “workouts feel easier, but FTP stayed the same. what am I doing wrong? so bummed”.

Lots of ppl on this forum as well as TR folks know this, but a metric puts it front and center.


Actual TTE is an Andy Coggan term. He worked with Peaks Coaching (owner of both TP Premium and WKO4) to implement all of his metrics - FTP, NP, IF, TSS, PMC, ATL, CTL, TSB, FRC, TTE, Stamina, iLevel, . . . ).

I think they are all important for the purely self-coached athlete looking to push themselves to their absolute best. What TR has done to eliminate/reduce this necessity is structured their plans to not have the individual need to do so to get faster (e.g. they can improve fatigue resistance by doing the progressive intervals within the plans). For those of us who want to push ourselves to the limits, “knowledge is power”, but comes at an investment.

+1 to TTE.

Huge difference in fitness between a TTE of 40mins and 65 minutes at the same FTP.

RIP for all of us fast-twitch guys though when people start asking about TTE :rofl: