Nutrition plan for long event - fat oxidation rate?

[WindWarrior]

I started with Hammer Perpetum in 2016 but it made me gassy. Went to Gu Roctane grape powder and never looked back until I started making my own. Roctane is something like 40g maltodextrin and 20g fructose. Nowadays I make my own 90g and 60g bags. And buy Clif Bar blueberry crisp for 0.99 each on The Feed. Also medjool dates and bananas.

[cnidos]

I usually just buy things at gas stations along the way. Chocolate bars, Red Bull, etc. Will usually bring a couple of gels for emergency. As described in other comments, liquid carbs are another good option.

[OreoCookie]

@aurelien78

One of the variable to be fairly important is the fat oxidation rate. While looking at research papers, I am finding graphs like this:

I think you are taking a wrong turn in your quest to optimize nutrition.

After all, you could increase fat oxidation in a simple way: consume less carbs. Once your body runs low on muscle glycogen, which will happen after 3–4 hours, then your body has no choice to burn more fat. Problem solved. The “only” caveat: you’ll be much slower and likely feel horrible on the bike. If you can finish at all.

I’m going to quote @cnidos here for emphasis:

@cnidos

The goal of nutrition during a race (rather than during training) should be to consume as many carbs as possible, the whole time, regardless of what you calculate your energy requirements to be.

This. Details like fat oxidation rates will take care of themselves, they are what they need to be. Aim for a steady influx of carbs, 80 g per hour is a good starting point, albeit hard for an event of this length. Go for variety (liquid carbs, chews, etc.).

The details depend on how much you can stomach. I find anything beyond 4–5 hours requires a different approach to nutrition, also because if done wrong, your stomach could literally be full.

[OreoCookie]

@cnidos

I usually just buy things at gas stations along the way.

Yeah, that’s the go-to here in Japan, too, just replace gas station with convenience store. Besides, you need to stop for water along the way, too.

Figuring out what foods work for you and which don’t is highly personal. On days longer than 5 hours, I like to have something savory. Palate fatigue is also real, so it is better to mix things up, too. Ice cream can be a great treat on hot days.

[otnemeM]

Surely it’s more practical to pack only enough for the first hour or two and then make quick stops. Between that and the saddle bag with bike essentials, plus the zipbag with phone and personal essentials, I’m topped up.

For liquid carb sources, try Vitargo. Supported by more science than Maurten and much cheaper. Very easy in the GI.

[Rizzi]

@OreoCookie

After all, you could increase fat oxidation in a simple way: consume less carbs. Once your body runs low on muscle glycogen, which will happen after 3–4 hours, then your body has no choice to burn more fat. Problem solved. The “only” caveat: you’ll be much slower and likely feel horrible on the bike. If you can finish at all.

Not going to debate that topic (as it’s been discussed on this forum at length already) besides just leaving the other side of the medal here. Taken from coach Kolie Moore (@empiricalcycling ):

Zone 2 fueling, fat loss & aerobic conditioning

I don’t know if this point was in that episode, but my understanding is that what you eat and what substrate you use for aerobic metabolism during exercise does not alter the underlying aerobic adaptation in any fundamental way. No exceptions. The mechanisms of aerobic adaptive signaling DGAF. With the exception of short easy recovery spins, I think fasted rides are useless and never suggest anyone restrict energy intake even at the start of rides. Diet manipulation is method that is used somet…

Edit: And maybe also have a look at these graphs:

Zone 2 training with Iñigo San Millán, part 2

I don’t know. Perhaps it takes a few minutes until the system stabilizes. Dont know [grafik] [grafik] [grafik]

[OreoCookie]

@otnemeM

Surely it’s more practical to pack only enough for the first hour or two and then make quick stops. Between that and the saddle bag with bike essentials, plus the zipbag with phone and personal essentials, I’m topped up.

I can easily fit 3–4 hours worth of fuel on my bike: I can put up 80–100 g carbs in a bottle (x 2), and put 100–200 g gummi bears in my right rear pocket. In the summer I do drink more, so I tend to put less carbs in my bottles and stop after about 2 hours for a refill.

[DaveWh]

@aurelien78

better approximate how much I will need to fuel at the different moment of the race.

@PhydomiR

as much as my stomach can handle per hour for the duration of the event.

^ This. Just eat as much as you can handle. I’m riding Unbound this year. It’ll take me about 15 hours. I plan to consume 300 cals/hr of gels (75g/hr of carbs) while on the bike, and augment with some solid food at the aid stations, depending on how I’m feeling. Will drink about 0.75L per hr, depending on how hot it is.

Unless you have done custom testing on your carb vs fat utilization at different intensities, and know how to use that to inform fueling, just stick with the simple approach of eat as much as you can handle.

[OreoCookie]

@DaveWh

^ This. Just eat as much as you can handle. I’m riding Unbound this year. It’ll take me about 15 hours.

That’s an important point: event duration is key. Liquid calories are easy to digest, but they are not very dense. After a certain point you cannot drink anymore, so you have to ingest more solid foods, which puts more strain on your stomach. So you really have to test and train your nutrition strategy.

That’s another reason why I like to fuel every ride consistently, ingesting calories becomes a habit and I have learnt to pace myself so that I ingest the amount I planned for.

[billytheconq]

@OreoCookie

After a certain point you cannot drink anymore

How sure are you on this? I ask because IME you can run like 300g carbs in a bottle (it’s really sweet!) but if you have some plain water to rinse afterwards it works well. I did a 25hr road event on just carb mix and it went waaaaayy better than any of my 18hr rides where I ate solids.

[OreoCookie]

@billytheconq

How sure are you on this? I ask because IME you can run like 300g carbs in a bottle (it’s really sweet!) but if you have some plain water to rinse afterwards it works well. I did a 25hr road event on just carb mix and it went waaaaayy better than any of my 18hr rides where I ate solids.

I don’t think I could stomach energy mix that thick. My limit is 120 g per 0.65–0.7 l bottle. Even 100 g per bottle taste gross when I forget to add lemon juice. Plus, I need to drink a lot, especially in the summer. Some people can make their bottles last hours, but I am not one of them.

However, you bring up a good point: nutrition is highly personal, what you can and cannot stomach depends on you. If 300 g of carbs in a bottle is what works for you, I am glad you found your way to skin the cat!

[billytheconq]

Haha me too! I will say I’m taking it as little sips all through the ride, and it wasn’t particularly thick… if it starts verging on solids then what’s the point, right?