New Feature - TrainNow

Think of it this way: a training plan’s goal is to develop a particular balance of discipline-specific abilities within a pre-determined period of time (the training plan’s length), for a particular goal (success in an event or ride type). This means the progression of difficulty from week to week, the specific energy systems targeted within each workout, as well as the interspersal of rest weeks and easy days are all designed strategically to work together with that particular endpoint and goal in mind.

TrainNow is by design more open-ended. It uses its knowledge of your current fitness to suggest workout options that will be productive for your fitness overall, without being so hard that you’ll be likely to have trouble completing them. It’s perfect if you’re not working towards a goal, since it lets you choose what specific energy system or interval duration to focus on each day. But it’s not working with a specific goal-centered focus or designated timeframe like a training plan. As you complete TrainNow workouts, your fitness will improve and the workouts will gradually become more challenging to meet your growing abilities. But that day-to-day progression is not driven by any motivator other than the simple concept of presenting you with a productive training session.

As for your other question, our goal is for all workouts, structured and unstructured, indoors and out to be included in Adaptive Training’s analysis of your fitness by the time it’s publicly released to all athletes. There are some limitations to how this is working right now, which I discussed in my last post (along with how these current areas of improvement affect TrainNow).

We’ve covered TrainNow quite a few times in blog posts that might help round out your understanding, and I’ll link to them below. We’re also continuing work on further educational materials for both TrainNow and Adaptive Training. We totally realize they’re complicated features, and it’s challenging to present all the information about them to our athletes in a clear and easily accessible way, but we’re working on it!

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Thanks for the explanation. One more question…What about flexibility, like taking off due to other commitments, unplanned but required rest days, etc. TrainNow is obviously super-flexible in that regard. What about the training plans? How will it adjust if I take a day off, or add two rest days that I think I need, or add in a TrainNow workout, or conversely, add in an outdoor ride on a planned day because it’s a nice riding day? What happens in those cases?

Both TrainNow and Adaptive Training account for an incomplete workout, rearranging of workouts due to unplanned time off, etc via your Progression Levels. If you miss workouts, your TrainNow suggested workouts will be impacted, and you’ll be served a suggested adaptation within your plan.

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Will AT completely change the type of workout? For instance, suppose I do an off-plan very HIIT workout a couple of days before when another in-plan HIIT has been planned. Will TR change that scheduled HIIT to a different type, like SS or tempo or whatvever? What if that unscheduled HIIT workout I threw in is a custom workout, or an outdoor workout?

which begs the question of what knowledge does it gather?

Poked around my TR custom workouts library and I believe custom workouts do not support outside option.

Therefore if you train outside, and want progression level updating, then you need to load TR calendar with a TR workout that has an outside option (not all do), and a supported bike computer (as of May 28 2021 its Garmin only?).

@IvyAudrain and @SeanHurley FWIW it feels like pulling teeth trying to figure out how to get progression level tracking to work with TrainNow. This is my current understanding:

TrainNow Feature Goal Current: May 28 2021 Status
Recommendation Climb/Attack/Endurance All Workouts All Workouts Complete
Progression Level Updating Indoors Structured TR workouts only; Custom Workout progression levels may not match TR workouts work in progress
Progression Level Updating Indoors Unstructured, for example riding/racing in Zwift, FulGaz, etc. not currently supported work in progress
Progression Level Updating Outdoors Structured Only TR outside workouts synced to bike computer; Garmin computers only work in progress
Progression Level Updating Outdoors Unstructured not currently supported work in progress

is that accurate?

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Trying to move your question to the AT thread, but experiencing technical difficulties lol, lets try to keep those separate/questions here for TrainNow.

Short answer: It depends on the duration of your unexpected time off, the time until your upcoming events, etc. (ie if I just take one or two days off, I’ll likely get an adaptation within the same ‘system’, but if I take two weeks off, I’ll be assigned a Ramp Test and be served a different progression versus jumping back into intensity).

I can confirm part of your chart :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

My rides indoor or outdoors have both resulted in TN changing the recommended workout type (i.e., attacking, climbing, endurance). I have been watching this for a few weeks.

I did two indoor TR workouts this week (vo2 4.1 and threshold 1.7) which has resulted in:

  • I am finally seeing the progression levels change for the recommended workout (previously always 1-2).
  • Today, I am seeing attacking being recommended for the first time.

All of which is in accordance with what Sean says above in post #510.

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Interesting. I wonder what triggers the TN attacking recommendation?
I’ve been making notes about the TN selections that my TR profile spits out and I’m still yet to see an attacking WO.

I’ve been out of action with the flu since last Saturday’s unstructured outdoor ride. (Today is the first day I’ve woken up without aches🤞).
It’s been a good opportunity to watch how TN reacts.
In my case TN started suggesting climbing rides from Monday onwards. No change in the recommended WO type since then although it looks like my attacking WO levels are starting to drop below 6’s more often than not.

I’ll go back to looking at my bikes hanging up in the gym for now while another amazing day unfolds outside. :pleading_face:. Probably shouldn’t have ordered a Varia and new jersey/bibs set after losing a whole week of work/pay.

Any scope for a TrainTomorrow feature?

Hear me out:
I like to be prepared for my workout and get my nuteition ready etc… sometimes it takes a while for the algorithm to work out I’m actually seeking a recommendation for 12-24 hours in the future & not “Now”.

Depending on the workout ill fuel accordingly (drinkmix).

I’ve also noted that for 75mim workout I’ll get dealt a SweetSpot workout, but at 90mins it’ll deal me an endurance ride. Is this just the algorithm detecting that my SweetSpot level isn’t quite up to a 90min duration

Example:
75min level 5-6 Sweetspot (Bondcliff -2)
90min level 6 Endurance (Bays +1)

Apologies if this has been suggested before

Cheers

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I just did a 2 hr free workout outdoors, with power, recorded using my Fenix 3 and it synced to TR through Strava. I think Train Now takes into account the TSS generated from that workout in recommending the next TN workout (because the recommended went from Climbing before the outdoor workout to Endurance afterwards), but the outdoor ride definitely didn’t affect the numbers in the Progression. It seems that would be a simple thing to do, no? Why can’t TR break down the time spent in power zones and apply it to the progression?

At this point, the progression levels are only affected by actual TR workouts.

The type of workout is triggered by indoor or outdoor workouts.

The functionality will get better! It’s a work in progress. That said, I started doing indoor TR workouts again only to see how this feature works, specifically the progression levels. So far after about 10d I think it’s pretty cool. I had been watching the workout type change for a few weeks, but progression levels were unaffected due to the rides being Zwift or outdoors.

Should take that up in the AT thread (per request to keep this thread for TN), but your question has been asked and answered. Read Sean’s replies. This question keeps coming up on multiple threads and is probably one of the most asked questions now. The answer hasn’t changed yet.

Here’s a response to an older post asking the same question. It would probably be good if TR can pin this to the AT status, which talks about workouts but not free-riding.

They understand it’s needed to get a complete picture. It’s more complicated than just TIZ and TSS doesn’t really play into anything.

I keep looking and still no confirmed sighting of the ever elusive Attacking recommendation…

9 days off the bike and all I have from TrainNow is a Free Solo commemorative T-Shirt with a picture of Alex Honnold hanging off El Capitan and “Climbing Recommended!” in big bold letters :joy:

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Anyone done “Hurd” or it’s varieties?

TrainNow just populated with Hurd-2 for me, so I went to look at Hurd to save for later and Woof, Level 9.4 and 3min at 130%.

I assume that it’s not perfectly categorised as the +1 version has much more work, and time in zone, but is a lower level. @IvyAudrain am I right to assume Hurd is a 9.4 because of the 130%? And based on the description, the 130% is very much a guide and the workout is designed to just be two sets of 3x3min at maximum 2.59min power?

I really enjoy TrainNow surfing :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I’m yet to see it after 9 days off. I rode outdoors yesterday and TN is back to endurance for now.
No climbing for you! :point_left:

I’m still feeling pretty average so can’t complain.

Its actually a misconception that the +/- naming structure is a reflection of the workout’s difficulty!
The + and - versions of a workout should simply be seen as different workout names. To get an idea of which workouts are harder or easier, Workout Levels give you a very clear measure of workout difficulty. Integrating Levels has revealed some unexpected insights for me, too, into which workouts are actually more challenging that aren’t always in line with what duration or intensity would suggest. :+1:

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Back on the bike for 2 days, and TrainNow still has me scaling El Capitan:

With this many climbing days in a row, I might be able to scale Mt Everest if TrainNow gave me an occasional Attacking workout!

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I have attacking again today (Thursday). Mon was rest day. Tue was Lola -2 (sweetspot 4.7). Wed was an easy hour. :man_shrugging:

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U :heart: sweet spot.

For me, it seems TrainNow will get interesting the day progression levels can be updated from outside structured workouts that my coach assigns in TrainingPeaks.

Best I can tell its not possible to use WorkoutCreator to make a custom workout, and then use RideSync to send it to my Garmin. Also not possible to use RideSync with workouts that come from my coach via TrainingPeaks.

Thats ok, would be nice for more direct information from TR on compatibility.

I :heart: the suffering of a good climb :+1:

Will report back when it offers up an attacking workout, as my attempts at injecting a little humor with climbing references is falling flat on the ground (:rofl: sorry couldn’t help myself!).

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