I was reading up on the mTor vs AMPK pathways and it is recommended to do a hard ride early in the day, and then lift at least 3 hours afterwards so AMPK levels can return to baseline. I have been doing this most days, just because I tend to only have time to get a ride in before work, not a ride and lifting.
However, at the end of the concurrent training article (Using Molecular Biology to Maximize Concurrent Training - PMC) they mentioned another article showing that mitochondrial biogenesis can be increased by lifting immediately after an easy ride. That article is here: Resistance exercise enhances the molecular signaling of mitochondrial biogenesis induced by endurance exercise in human skeletal muscle - PubMed
Does anyone do this? I am doing a custom plan where I am only doing two hard days a week, with the other days at zone 2. I could try to squeeze in the lifting on those zone 2 days right after the ride, instead of lifting at night like I have been.
If your primary goal is cycling, then I think just getting the lifting done is vastly more important than the timing of when you’re doing it. As long as it’s not at a time when it impacts the quality of a key cycling session, I’d just go with whenever is most convenient.
I’ve been doing it while following the easy aerobic endurance rides in traditional base 1 and 2.
I lift in the morning and ride in the late afternoon. I usually finish lifting around 8am-ish and ride after 4pm/5pm. Lifting 2-3days a week. I lift full body stuff - squats, deadlifts, bench, pulling of some sort, core - I’ve managed everything from 4x8s (Dicks), Sweet Spot and Z2 rides.
For me, it kind of just depends how gassed you are on the day to day basis. I wonder sometimes what the best order is but for consistency, it’s easier to lift in the morning.
I find separating the two at opposite ends of the day can compromise my recovery for the following morning.
Heavy lifting in the evening and then trainerroad in the morning sounds very hard to be consistent with.
I’d be too pumped to sleep and then i’d be too tired and sore in the morning.
I’m doing my legdays after VO2max and Overunders at the moment.
Because of the amount of weight I actually have to pull to be in my 3-5 rep max range, I find if I do it on easier days there just isn’t enough recovery time for my legs.
Bare in mind I am testing this in SSB2 and I will report back how it goes after the next 5 weeks. (Hopefully I’ll get back to squatting 2.2x BW and DL’ing just under 3x BW, which is where I was before I stupidly decided I wanted to enter a triathlon)
i cant find the article but i was told to lift first then ride because of…hmmm, damn, some bio something or other.
i agree, what works best with life is the best bet. maybe not optimized, but realistic
Today I lifted about a hour after doing a 63 mile zone 2 ride and I thought it was going to be brutal but it was actually ok. This plan is going to give me a full day off once a week which I think is good for recovery.
Agree with lifting whenever it’s convenient. I’m in SSB 1 mid volume and I lift after my z2 on Wednesday and during my rest day on Friday. My legs were noticeably sore yesterday due to lifting the day before and I thought it was going to be a brutal SS workout. However, I was surprised that when I got on the bike I barely noticed my sore legs at all.
I’m sure there is “ideal” timing combining lifting weights with your cycling, but these differences are marginal. More important is simply getting it done and being consistent, whatever it takes to achieve that goal. So do what works for you until it doesn’t, then modify as needed.
I think there are a few considerations about timing. One is whether you want your cycling to compromise your lifting or your lifting to compromise your cycling. Lifting after an endurance ride probably has benefits to strength and some endurance adaptations… but if you are doing hard intervals the next morning, it’s not going to be fun. If you lift in the evening after morning intervals, you might skip the last set or two of squats.
But I think the 80% solution is to lift and ride whenever it fits for you. Most of us lose more fitness to inconsistency than imperfect training… just getting it done is better than skipping either until you are compromising sleep and recovery to fit it in.
I think there are two main concerns when training for both strength & endurance:
- The workouts being compromised due to excessive fatigue from another workout.
- The impulses from one kind of exercise blunting the impulses from the other.
I think 1. also applies to exercising in general. Always make sure to be sufficiently rested and fueled for your key sessions. No matter if endurance or strength. Ofc if one is more important to you, prioritize rest for that discipline.
Point 2. is a bit trickier. As I understand it the ‚adaptation signaling’ (AMPK and SIRT1) from endurance training need roughly three hours to ‚wear off‘. Therefore one shouldn‘t do strength training in this window, as it interferes with AMPK and SIRT1 activity.
Strength training ‚signals‘ (mTORC1) on the other hand has been shown to be active for as long as 12-24 hours (depending also on training level). Endurance training can interfere with mTORC1 activity. Therefore its not advised to do (high intensity) endurance training in this window.
So far I‘ve never heard, that strength training after low intensity endurance training could increase its effect. Sounds interesting though! Could have sth to do with increased muscle glycogen depletion?