That is a good point – the problem for this situation, I believe, is that I’m at a point where trying to get further granularity on my exact FTP is difficult (and potentially not very productive). My power-duration curve right now is fairly flat for 30-70 minutes, going from 344 down to 332. I don’t have enough max (or near max) efforts in that time frame to give major inflection points. As you say, at 40 minutes it is 340, and then at 50 its 336. at 60 333, and 332 at 70.
If I were to try and be more specific, I think being able to provide more data points (either through additional testing or workouts tailored to give that feedback) would help clear this up and make a clearer inflection point.
But I also think that while I have a tendency to want an “exact” number, that isn’t necessarily possible or productive – I’d rather just get on with training at a reasonable estimate and see how it goes! And we’ll see how the next rendition goes, and the watts and TTE is reveals then.
What powermeter are you using? The good ones are around 1% and can be as high as 2%, so you’re within the margin of measurement error.
As @splash pointed out, the inflection point is what WK05 puts it at. Once you see it a few times you can pick it out of most power curves.
Chatting with @RONDAL about this, I did a TR Ramp Test initially, and used that FTP and did a TTE test, and set the rest of my curve. My mFTP was a few within the TR ramp test, but even in just a week’s time I’ve been able to move my TTE out a few minutes.
Help a brother out. I tried but can’t get through the 1000 posts on this ftp test. So I drop my questions first then context
Is there a Progression 1 and/or Progression 2 workout available I can do within TR?
I’m assuming from what I did read, first 150 posts, I ride it in Erg mode
Do I need to do analysis, math is hard, or by setting my target is there a point I know my new ftp?
What else do I need to know going in?
Tried the ramp test again this week starting Specialty for gravel races in June. Again I sucked just as I bumped just above 300 watts. I left my ftp at 235. I can roll sweet spot at that ftp. This week I rode Diamond Valley +2, 115 % of ftp without much trouble. Once I hit 120% I start to struggle and blow up pretty quick.
I’m thinking of a 250 ftp target.
We’re in winter part 3 this week so I think I’m inside so I thought this would be a good opportunity to try something new. Thanks in advance for help.
I used ERG mode to drive resistance and I tweaked the intensity based on how things felt. It worked pretty well I think. But it did feel like I could have done with finer control over the resistance. TR only allows you to change intensity in steps of 1%, which for me this is 3watts. My sensation was that the line between sustainable and unsustainable was very fine indeed e.g., 318w was sustainable whilst 321w was definitely not.
I’ve also used ERG mode for this, and tweak the target up/down as needed. You definitely need to ride by feel, not to a power target, but this can be done in ERG mode as well. I prefer this as I can ride at my preferred cadence and don’t have to deal with shifting and getting stuck between gears. As long as your able to easily adjust the target while riding, I think ERG is fine.
There’s a subtle difference between riding erg and resistance mode. Resistance mode is more like riding out on the road, microbreaks and such.
The issue I sometimes have with standard or resistance mode is finding myself between gearing for a certain setting. Sometimes I have to dial in the resistance setting such that I can find someplace where I can spin comfortably instead of being forced to be at 89 or 103rpm to maintain target power. Takes some tweaking, but definitely worthwhile vs erg for this stuff IME.
TTE has gone out since my last test, but didn’t manage to increase my FTP. TTE went from 36 mins to 41 mins
I took a few days rest, tested once mid day and my RPE was insanely high, bailed and then retested later in the evening same day and managed to get a new TTE all time best! Maybe legs were a bit fatigued from the mid day session to show an FTP bump?
Agreed. That’s why it’s not a big deal for me. Not enough that I would change the way in which I do the assessment.
For me FTP is like a guide, a starting point from which I can make further tweaks to get the workout intensity where I feel it needs to be.
Regarding getting an FTP bump from the test - if this is one of Alex Gold’s TR workouts, I think they are made to give you an FTP bump, but only if you make it to the start of the ramp. (Corrected!)
In KM’s original protocol, you shouldn’t stick to a pre-determined power, but so that you feel you are at FTP. So use your old FTP as guidline, but if you feel you are actually below FTP, than ride harder, and then use that as confirmation of your new FTP.
I’ve had a bit of a break from threshold work after usually doing quite a lot of it. So wasn’t expecting to be at my best for this, but wanted to test anyway as it’s been a while.
I set out at my latest FTP of 370w (TTE of 60 mins) last tested on 30th January. It felt about right for most of the time, but I barely made it to 40 mins. After a bit of recovery in Z2 I did another 10 mins and then 5 mins at 366w (99% intensity), which I definitely wouldn’t have been able to do the previous times when I’ve hit a 60 min TTE. So this throws up some doubts for me about the correct W and TTE to use going forwards. Just to perhaps muddy the water, I’ve not slept very well the last few nights. It’s a bit worse than usual, but I acknowledge that **** happens and not every training day is perfect.
When I don’t do sustained power work for a few weeks, my RPE during sustained power work goes through the roof. It seems to take me about a week to get back into it. I’d try this test again in a week after a few sessions and see how it goes before I made a call.
That said, making it 40 min on the first shot, absent other information, I’d say your FTP is pretty close to 370, maybe 365. But again, that difference could just be your sleep, diet, how hot it was that day… I’d feel comfortable continuing to train at 370 after that test given the other information.
Nailed it. The is a good workout and gives good results which can be compared with each other easily. I find the ramp test is more of a test of my willpower to see how long I can hang on.
KM effect on PL levels? I’m scheduled for FTP test today and had planned to do Kolie Moore Program 1 Longer Ramp, but I now see it’s listed as PL VO2 Max 11.7! Since it’s a TTE test, I don’t expect to complete the full workout. Has anyone on AT had experience with this issue? I’m afraid it will push my future VO2 Max workouts to an unachievable difficulty (assuming I don’t get an FTP boost which lowers the PL levels).
As an alternative, I’m considering the TR 20 minute FTP test, which seems more similar to KM than the TR shorter Ramp Test.
Just for clarity, ignore Workout Levels on any custom workout (which includes these KM test ones). TR stated that custom workouts are not properly handled in the PL system.
As far as impact on PL from the crazy PL rating of these tests… I am guessing that if you rate it as 4 or especially 5, it won’t likely have any impact on your existing PL. Considering this is essentially a push to failure (even if a long and steady one), it would seem like a 5 rating would be appropriate unless you bail for a time reason.
