Kolie Moore's FTP test protocol

Yes, yes I have. I just did my version of a progression 1, which was a threshold 12.7 or similar. I bailed fairly early on, as my FTP had not improved :frowning: Even with saying that I stopped due to workout intensity, AT moved me to a PL 10 for threshold. Working with support to get that fixed.

1 Like

No idea if this would even work or is a thing… but what if you now build a custom workout matching your watts and TTE. Then add it to the day you completed the workout and then associate the ride to workout.
wish I could test it out myself

I had exact same problem. Due to lack of sleep (or at least that’s my excuse for now :grin:) I had to bail after about half an hour. It looks like AT thinks I nailed it because it moved my VO2 Max to 10 as well.

3 Likes

I hadn’t expected the early end to lead to accepting PL changes. That’s a bummer.

I wonder what you happen if you simply deleted the workout/test?

  • Hoping it would revert to the original PL, but not sure that works.

Yup, I think depending on exactly how you create the workout will determine whether it gets classified as VO2 or threshold. I make mine so that the test intensities are based current FTP being correct - ie the main threshold segment of the test is 100%. I then adjust the workout intensity based on how much improvement I am trying for. Since the intensity adjustment is mostly ignored by AT (maybe, just maybe used for ‘superpass’), this results in my workout being threshold. If instead you make the workout with the main section being 10X%, and ramping up from there at the end, this may make it VO2max.
I thankfully am not getting adaptations suggesting level 10 threshold workouts based on this, so even though the progression level is messed up my workouts are OK (for me about a 5 seems about right).
This once again shows the limits and ‘not good’ consequences of AT being too focused on the planned work, rather than the actual work done.

I think an 'exclude from AT/prog levels" option that users can select on workouts will be required until AT gets much, much better (and really, maybe permanently for the same reasons you can exclude something from TSS or PRs.) Once they get unstructured outside rides feeding into AT, if you get wonky data on a ride it will mess up TSS, PRs, and now also AT. I don’t think AT will be smart enough to ignore stuff on its own for a long time, so this kind of manual adjustment will be required.

2 Likes

This also fixed custom outside workouts on Garmin. Previously any outside workouts, Garmin or Wahoo, that were manually matched were all fails and did not update PLs. The fix was rather simple - make them all passes.

Selecting “I Did Not Pass” in the survey should stop PL updating (but I haven’t tried it to confirm).

1 Like

In my case, I got the ‘struggle/fail’ survey, and I selected workout intensity as the reason. I would think this should be enough to not adjust your progression levels based on the workout, but it did in my case.

Other than my PL being way off, this doesn’t seem to be an issue as I was never given adaptation suggestions based on the threshold 10 PL. (Or maybe I just quickly ignored those and forgot about it in my stupor following that workout…)

All outside custom workouts. Since the default pass, I believe a couple surveys were fail. But the vast majority were pass surveys.

Same here for me - mine’s based on 100%, so shows as Threshold. If I think my FTP has increased I need to change manually in settings before the workout or bump manually as I go.

Today was 62 mins (under-estimated fuelling a little, and think I could’ve gone a little longer) and a bump to a PL of 10, which seems right looking at catalogue workout Unicorn +1 (60 mins close to threshold). Almost back to the level I was after base phase! :sob:

When I completed my survey response or try to update, “I did not pass” is not an option in the Desktop or IOS app. Only option is why I didn’t complete (“Intensity”).

  • I suspect that is because you ran a workout via the TR app and that is what loaded into your TR calendar as the completed workout.

  • AFAIK, the “I did not pass” option is only available for “outside” workouts that come from a source other than the TR app.

1 Like

Assuming your calendar is public, it looks like you did Colosseum -1 yesterday. And no outside rides since August 16th. Per Chad’s post above, the “I did not pass” option is (probably) only available for outside rides that receive a default pass. I say probably because all my rides over many months are outside custom workouts.

1 Like

I did this test at the end of June, with the power settings based off my then-FTP. The workout was done in the TR Android app.
On the test, I managed 45 or so minutes for the main body of the test and then cooled down. And received a “Fail” survey.
So I complained to customer support that I had not failed. Indeed on this and all similar test protocols, it is almost certain that one will “fail” in the AT sense. So I suggested to support that we be able to tag such workouts as tests, which would prompt their own form of survey.
If you think that this is an appropriate way of dealing with this problem, then a nudge to feature requests might be in order. Certainly some fix for this issue is needed.

1 Like

Yeah, they get around this by making the ramp test a very special ‘dynamic’ workout.

I doubt they will add anything for this special case for non-TR tests. Support mentioned that they were planning (no timeline or priority mentioned) adding a checkbox for workouts to exclude them from AT, just like there are for TSS and PRs. I think that this is an essential feature for them to have, and will be necessary for far longer than they would like to admit :slight_smile: This will at least make it so these tests don’t mess up progression levels, but they won’t contribute to them either. The general solution that solves this any many other problems is for them to be able to classify unstructured outside rides, and adjust PLs based on that. This solves a bunch of outside problems, and for these tests you would just need to record it on another device, or (I think), download the .fit file, delete the workout, then upload the .fit file, and it will not be a ‘TR’ ride. I think that is about the most special handling that we can expect from them for non-TR tests.
I am liking AT (although I am currently a bit scared about the VO2 max workouts in my future), but it has a long, long way to go.

Planning on ditching the ramp test for next season and trying to decide on the KM method or the 20min TR test.

Those that have done both, how close were your numbers? I know the KM test gives TTE as well so that’s a plus. Admittedly though I don’t remember exactly how the KM protocol works, need to reread his blog.

Also, is there a “shared” version of the KM test made on workout creator floating around?

Is there a “team” created with other FTP tests as created by users?

I have dialled up Lola for Monday to have a feel out with. My theory being I can dial up an extra 10min and ramp up at the end. Intervals.ICU will do an analysis off of the average for the 30+min is my theory.

This is the one I know of for the KM tests:

1 Like

Thanks Chad! Perfect :+1:.

Random question, when in a “team” do all the normal privacy settings remain except for administrators?

Good question, and I can’t say I know for sure. I presume the “privacy” setting is all-or-nothing based on what I have seen elsewhere, but I have not paid much attention to it from the Team side of life.

Could be worth an email to TR support to get the full scoop.

1 Like

Thanks!

Everyone sticking to erg for these or resistance mode?