Are you using the ones in Team Gold or direct from the Training Peaks article? The Team Gold ones seem to be modified based on their descriptions.
I made my own. I don’t really know the sequence that well, I’d just go with whichever one lets you do more than 35 minutes at FTP before finishing or ramping. Just to see if you can get a bit further.
Have you ever done a long time trial or a long climb? I’m more a fan of progression 3 although back in 2017 I just kept going longer and longer wanting to see how my 8-min and 20-min tests compared with longer steady-state power:
Its not all hour-of-power wine and roses, far from it, also doing shorter tests (similar to progression 1 or 2) with a hard finish at various times to test how I feel or feed WKO like this 31-minuter in February:
Mentally I wasn’t ready that day (and to be honest that week or month!) to go longer.
You learn something on every attempt, just do it 
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Do you train using power? Specifically do you do any threshold or sweet spot workouts with power? If so, then having your FTP set correctly is very relevant to you.
Also “1 hour power” is not FTP. If your true TTE is 40 minutes, that doesn’t make it any less your FTP than if your TTE was 60 minutes. And a TTE of over an hour is possible too, doesn’t necessarily mean your FTP is wrong if you can hold it for 70 minutes. There is a name for one hour power - Critical Power or CP60. If you’re interested in learning more refer to the Empirical Cycling podcast (with Kolie Moore), start with Watts Doc #1.
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Yes I do train with power. But only on the trainer. I do not have power for my outdoor bikes.
I realize of course that having an “FTP” is important for the training aspects you are talking to.
What I am looking for is other people’s experience with using the ramp test “FTP” versus using the KM “FTP” (which for me is at least 15% lower). The whole point as I see it, am I working out too hard using the ramp test and the TR plans, and could I get just as much gain by lowering my “FTP” to align with KM.
So far using the ramp test FTP with TR has led to some hard workouts, and some good gains, so I am reluctant to change unless, others have positive experience with it.
Well yeah I’m one of those people. The ramp test worked for me at the start, but sometime into Sustained Power Build it diverged and things got messy.
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Also hard does not necessarily equal good (or progress-inducing), as I have since learned. I would repeat to myself “it doesn’t get easier, you just get stronger” as I struggled to finish over-unders more than 8 minutes long, which previously had been some of my “favourite” workouts.
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Without reading the posts which followed this I’d say there is a high probability of this being the case, many many people train with an inflated FTP I’m convinced.
When I read what some people are reporting, and looking at their struggles through what should be easy SST sessions, I often think SSB should be called “Threshold Base” (can’t shorten it to TB though as it would get confused with tradition base lol.)
As to should the ramp test or a longer test like KM test be used that is good question and I have a few thoughts on it. I think it depends on how you respond to real SST training verses Threshold training. You might see quick gains of a ramp test but there is a strong possibility for some they are Threshold training, if going through two or more lots of base and build cycles burn out imo is almost impossible to avoid unless you are young or very lucky in having very fast recovery.
Really I cant see a case for not going with a more realistic FTP of the longer format tests. Even if in a hurry to build fitness as you just do a Threshold or VO2Max off your real number.
Personally, I’m looking for long term year on years gains… not boom and bust short term… been there done that and it leads to misery and illness more often than not.
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This is such a good post.
This is exactly what I am pondering!
I was hoping to hear from a few people who had tried following a LV cycle with the reduced FTP number, and see how their progress is. I don’t want to work any harder than I have to for my gains.
I can see it being different from people following the LV, MV & HV plans. Following the LV plans, you got 3 hard workouts and plenty of time to recover in between.
I have no problems seeing working with the realistic FTP is better if you’re working with a coach, with a personal plan and using it to pace. I’m specifically pondering if it isn’t better to stick with TR test regimen when exclusively using TR plans.
A few notes about using the KM FTP test result to inform power levels on a LV TrainerRoad plan. As I hear it, one of the points KM makes throughout his podcast on effective FTP testing and training is that, for riders using ramp tests which overestimate their FTP, a “Sweetspot” plan actually ends up with that rider hitting threshold numbers during workouts. Another point he makes is that, depending on the TTE (time to exhaustion) of a rider, riding at Sweetspot with a realistic FTP may not provide enough Tiz/stress at the appropriate power level to meaningfully bump up a rider’s FTP. If someone re-assesses using the KM protocol and finds they have a FTP of 245w and a TTE of 45 minutes, versus what they thought was a 260w FTP using the ramp test, going back to a series of Sweetspot workouts that are now in the proper, accurate, lower zone may not provide enough stress to raise their FTP at the lower prescribed power levels. A workout with 8-15 minute intervals and a total of only around 45 mins TiZ at what is now accurately zoned as Sweetspot may not provide enough stress to increase threshold when they were unknowingly previously riding at threshold.
In other words, plan structure, interval length, and total TiZ may have to be reconsidered in light of a new assessment protocol that provides a more realistic FTP AND TTE.
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That’s exactly what I “fear”.
Previously my sweetspot workouts have indeed included meaningful time in zone for sub & supra treshold. So they have been hard, but manageable due to the short length of the intervals.
This is specially true for the SSB1 LV, which becomes very easy using the appropriate FTP. So I am curous to see how I will regress or progress at the end of the cycle. Decided to go with the more realistic number, but sticking with the TR plans
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In other words stop using TR plans and customize your own. H
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Possibly. I think that depends on the particular individual’s goals, and whether they get an overestimated FTP from the ramp test versus a longer test protocol. I’m obviously not qualified to prescribe training recommendations for anyone (including myself), but I have been tinkering with longer FTP workouts myself lately, with what seems like promising results. However, my specific goal has been increasing FTP and TTE, as opposed to building more of an off-season base, raising VO2max, etc.
I haven’t done this long enough, but from looking at the structure of most plans, including TR’s, the components and methodology are not too obscure to analyze. I believe most people just don’t want to have to think about it.
I think is very similar to financial advice. By the time you do the necessary homework to check if your advisor is any good, you know enough to do it yourself.
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IMO the point of SSB is to get ready for build, not just to improve FTP. Lots of people see gains in SSB but that could be due to low starting fitness / starting up again after end of year break, and the new introduction of some intensity. Getting through base without killing yourself isn’t a bad thing as long as you get the right muscular endurance to get through the higher intensity of the build phase.
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I’m not so sure it’s that clear for most of us. I pretty much ride at 100% of the prescription and since I believe my FTP is over inflated I’m training harder than I should and getting more fatigue.
I ramp tested to 267 three weeks ago - had a break for a few weeks but today I could t do 2x20 @ 240. I believe I’m almost exactly the fragile FTP that this type of testing is targeted at.
I’ve reset my FTP to 250 and I’ll do 2x20 @ 90% again before I start progressing to longer intervals, and higher % of work. I’m targeting a 1x60@FTP this year.
It’s fun for me at the moment to be learning to train myself - I’m still signed up to TR I just need a change.
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I’ve just started to ask this of the TR platform. Their plans/workouts are based on Coggan’s power levels but they disregard his duration levels.
SS, defined by TR, is 88-94% FTP. Coggan’s minimum durations are Tempo 30mins and Threshold 10mins. 50% of SS is in Threshold land which means the bare minimum for a SS interval should be 10mins. How many TR workouts are composed of sub-10min SS intervals?!
Paraphrasing KM, if you can’t do a 20min SS interval, you’ve got bigger problems.
It’s very odd that TR is centred around interval work — intensity x duration — yet they completely ignore the duration part of the equation they have chosen to use. As a business, I completely understand why, but as riders, I don’t think we have the same luxury.
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This!
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