Is it possible to adapt the plans to a two weeks work, one week recovery pattern?

[TheRow1986]

Hi all, I’ve found that I respond much better to 2 weeks on, 1 lighter/recovery, especially with three hard sessions a week. I’ve tried TR base and whilst I loved the efficiency and adaptive training I found 5 weeks until a lighter week meant that I burnt out after base 2.

Is there a way that I can modify the base, build speciality plans so that I can work to a 2/1 pattern. If I do this manually and then copy the last week of base to make last six work weeks will I still get the benefit of Adaptive training?

If this won’t work might this be a possible development in the future? @IvyAudrain @Nate_Pearson

[berto2cj]

If I was in this position (BTWs late season near peak I’ve found this 2:1 works for me too) I would build a plan with the recovery weeks as ‘off’ using time off. Then just add in some endurance rides in that week using train now.

[HLaB]

I tweak my plan and it seems to be adapting, hopefully correctly!
The standard LV plan has 3 HIT workouts, whereas with weekend riding etc I find it better if I drop the middle session to a LIT one. Whether its right or wrong Ive found it best to only look at the next week and leave the original HIT session in place until I do the LIT session and delete it then at which point AT usually adapts resetting the future calendar. Based on that I would think that towards the end of your two work weeks you could line up LIT (recovery) sessions temporarily in parallel with the originally planned TR sessions. Deleting the original TR sessions after you have done the LIT (recovery week).

[HLaB]

That’s a thought. I substitute one of my workouts for a recovery and I usually leave them in parallel (the HIT and the LIT) and then after I’ve did the LIT session delete the HIT one. I’ll maybe try adding an annotation for future weeks.

Edit: I ve dropped in time off allocation for the Wednesday until the end of the year I think that’ll stop AT adapting HIT sessions back in on those days.

[batwood14]

I was honestly just thinking about this exact question (I’m 48) - thanks OP for beating me to it

Interested to see the answers….

[SarahLaverty]

Hey @TheRow1986 ! Welcome to the TrainerRoad forum! So glad you are loving Adaptive Training so far!

It sounds like you’d like more customisable Training Plans to account for your individual recovery needs?

To accommodate for athletes’ preferences and differing recovery needs, we plan on making some updates to Plan Builder .

These changes will allow you to select which days you want to train, the duration you have available for each training day, and when doing so, add in how many days of intensity you want.
This will be guided intelligently by Plan Builder and will allow us to better accommodate different recovery needs, and time available.

@HLaB

I find it better if I drop the middle session to a LIT one

In the meantime, this is a great approach to customising your Plan, as Adaptive Training will know exactly how to respond to this. When you skip a Workout, and perhaps replace with another Workout, Adaptive Training will adapt your Training Plan to keep you on track and progressing.

You can use Workout Alternates to find a Workout with a similar profile, but a little easier. Alternatively, you could use TrainNow to find an Endurance workout tailored to your fitness to replace that original Workout.

You can learn more about these features here:

• TrainNow: Intelligently Recommended Workouts

• How to use Workout Alternates

@HLaB

Whether its right or wrong Ive found it best to only look at the next week and leave the original HIT session in place until I do the LIT session and delete it then at which point AT usually adapts resetting the future calendar

Absolutely right!! I don’t recommend deleting the originally scheduled Workout from your Calendar until your Training Plan has adapted in response to the Workout you skipped and subsequently substituted.

Using this approach while we work on these updates will allow you to benefit from the intelligence of Adaptive Training and ensure that your Training Plan is always tailored and progresses based on your unique fitness level.

Let me know if any of you guys have questions! My DM’s are always open too .

[oldcyclist65]

@SarahLaverty

These changes will allow you to select which days you want to train, the duration you have available for each training day, and when doing so, add in how many days of intensity you want.
This will be guided intelligently by Plan Builder and will allow us to better accommodate different recovery needs, and time available.

As mentioned above too. Will the ability to choose a 2 weeks hard, 1 weeks easy option be included with this? Instead of the existing 5 weeks on 1 week recovery as per the current base 1 and 2 and the remaining plans with 3 weeks hard 1 week easy?

I sure hope so or its no use to me.

@SarahLaverty

[bfrostieone]

@SarahLaverty

These changes will allow you to select which days you want to train, the duration you have available for each training day, and when doing so, add in how many days of intensity you want.
This will be guided intelligently by Plan Builder and will allow us to better accommodate different recovery needs, and time available.

Are these changes coming to triathlon plans too?

[MrBirchling]

@SarahLaverty

To accommodate for athletes’ preferences and differing recovery needs, we plan on making some updates to Plan Builder .

These changes will allow you to select which days you want to train, the duration you have available for each training day, and when doing so, add in how many days of intensity you want.
This will be guided intelligently by Plan Builder and will allow us to better accommodate different recovery needs, and time available.

Great news! I look forward to trying these out when ready.

[tag]

Sweet spot base 2 is super crazy at 5:1. There’s so much intensity in it that it’s virtually a mini-build.

Every winter I wonder if I’ll get through it. I’m rapidly closing in on 50, so will soon reach a point where 5:1 simply isn’t an option.

Fingers crossed that the much promised updates to plan builder arrives soon. Not sure my ageing legs can cope much longer…

[oldcyclist65]

At 57 i couldn’t even imagine completing base 2 now. We need the option to go 3:1 or 2:1 instead of 5:1 gulp

[IvyAudrain]

Thanks, all. I’m definitely hearing that the common theme here is a desire for greater, more individualized control over work to recovery ratios.

The great news is: yes, we are developing Plan Builder updates that will allow for more customization in work to recovery ratios, while still being driven by Adaptive Training.
While the exact specs of these features are still being developed, we’ll be sure to post new information about what PB changes look like as they become available.
@bfrostieone yes, that feature will apply to Tri plans as well!

For @tag and @oldcyclist65: I do want to make sure you have all the options in mind for how to address the feeling of ‘too much intensity’. Adaptive Training is already set up to help you, it’s just a matter of utilizing those tools effectively!Here are some tips:

1. How post-workout surveys and Adaptive training can help:

Leaning into your post-workout surveys will help Adaptive Training accommodate how you’re feeling in the way it was intended to. It’s safe to say your rest week is helping that work you’ve done take effect, but if you’re still feeling like the intensity is too much moving forward, its important to communicate that in post-workout surveys. While you have done this for a couple workouts over the last few months, please keep marking a workout ‘Very Hard’ due to training fatigue if you really do feel the intensity is difficult for you. Letting AT know will only help better personalize the training plan for you.

@mcneese.chad made this great visual to help athletes effectively respond to post-workout surveys. It can be easy to ‘expect’ it to be difficult going into the workout and that can impact your survey, try not to think about what you expect to feel and instead respond with how that effort actually felt.

2. Adjusting your work-to-recovery ratio:
   Consider going to Low Volume and adding a TrainNow workout when you’d like an other endurance day.
   You can use workout Alternates to shorten some of those higher intensity workouts when you know you’re going into it feeling fatigued. You’ll still satisfy the requirements of the workout but at a shorter duration that may help you get on top of recovery sooner.

3. Mix it up and try a different block other than SS Base if you feel the intensity is too much.
   Utilize Plan Builder or Traditional Base blocks instead of Sweet Spot Base. Don’t be afraid to try stuff out with Plan Builder and get a preview of what your workouts would be before applying. You can delete your Sweet Spot Build phase you’re going into and re-apply if you’d like!

Let me know if you have questions about any of these options, either here or via DM, but I wanted to make sure you knew that there are a handful of solutions in place if you’re having trouble with intensity in general. We’re here to help!

[tag]

Thanks @IvyAudrain

In fairness, you are right. Adaptive training has made SSB MV 2 less intense. I think I’m still mentally scarred from the years of doing the original SSBMV2 plan. That one was super tough, and week 5 was absolutely brutal. The overall plan intensity is defintely dialled back now, and best of all, I’m seeing the same results, but without having to absolutely empty myself to finish the plan. I’m a HUGE fan of AT for this reason alone. Less is definitely more.

I still think SSBMV2 falls more towards the build end of the spectrum, rather than the base, and so the 5:1 ratio doesn’t seem quite right to me - although I am still managing to get through it (and seeing good results), so maybe my concerns are totally misplaced. I’m looking forward to the flexibility that might be baked into the future updates.

Build phase starts for me this week, and the 3:1 ratio makes is so much easier to mentally commit to a new training block. It will be over before I know it

[IvyAudrain]

@tag

and best of all, I’m seeing the same results, but without having to absolutely empty myself to finish the plan.

That is so great to hear! This combined with Adaptive Training critically understanding when to step you back and when to push you forward is so clutch. Thanks for letting me know!

Feel free to DM anytime if you have any questions at all going into this Build Phase. Although I’m confident you’re going to crush it.

[TheRow1986]

@berto2cj

ion (BTWs late season near peak I’ve found this 2:1 works for me too) I would build a plan with the recovery weeks as ‘off’ using time off. Then just add in some endurance rides in that week using train now.

@IvyAudrain

2. Mix it up and try a different block other than SS Base if you feel the intensity is too much.
   Utilize Plan Builder or Traditional Base blocks instead of Sweet Spot Base. Don’t be afraid to try stuff out with Plan Builder and get a preview of what your workouts would be before applying. You can delete your Sweet Spot Build phase you’re going into and re-apply if you’d like!

Let me know if you have questions about any of these options, either here or via DM, but I wanted to make sure you knew that there are a handful of solutions in place if you’re having trouble with intensity in general. We’re here to help!

I’m glad I’m not the only one!!!

Thank-you @SarahLaverty and @IvyAudrain for the clarifications. I’m really excited to see how TR evolves in the next months and years.

[SarahLaverty]

It’s a pleasure to help!

@TheRow1986

I’m really excited to see how TR evolves in the next months and years.

US TOO

[Mdavidford]

@IvyAudrain

@mcneese.chad made this great visual to help athletes effectively respond to post-workout surveys.

I much prefer my own protocol for assessing workouts, which I like to call the Stand Test. After completing your workout:

• Put things away, change, eat, etc., make a coffee [~45 mins]
• Sit on sofa, drink coffee, faff around on the internets [~45 mins]
• Stand up
• Rate, on a scale of 1 to 5, how much it feels like your legs belong to someone else’s body

[TheRow1986]

@TheRow1986

respond much better to 2 weeks on, 1 lighter/recovery, especially with three hard sessions a week. I’ve tried TR base and whilst I loved the efficiency and adaptive training I found 5 weeks until a lighter week meant that I burnt out after base 2.

Is there a way that I can modify the base, build speciality plans so that I can work to a 2/1 pattern. If I do this manually and then copy the last week of base to make last six work weeks will I still get the benefit of Adaptive training?

@SarahLaverty , I’ve not been listening to the podcast recently, has there been any more on this? Any movement on choosing work/recovery ratios?

[ZackeryWeimer]

Hey there! We don’t have any updates at this time, so for now, we’d recommend sticking with the Adaptive Training and Plan Builder tips that Sarah and Ivy posted above.

We’ll post updates to this thread as we have them!

[TheRow1986]

Did @Jonathan hint at progress on this when he said, last week, that base is ‘currently’ 5 weeks on, followed by a rest week…