There are ones that are tagged sweet spot that go lower.
SS library has a large margin of error wrt FTP input.
@hvvelo i get your concern. But I think a lot of folks are putting too much weight into any of this being an exact science when it’s not.
Furthermore, it may be true that certain workouts are indicative of accurate FTP. And also that basing a workout program on “accurate” FTP gets results.
But are many ways to skin a cat. And the zones represent ranges that are not exact boundaries.
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I get what you are saying and noticed too that slight bumps in FTP reduced PL levels quite a bit, even so much that the workouts for the new PLs end up being at a lower wattage and shorter durations
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I’ve done two key workouts after accepting a bump that is at least 5-6% high on what I can do for 40 min or so.
One was 3x30 min level 7.8 SS. It is equivalent to a level 10 SS at 5-6% reduced FTP setting.
I did a 3x20 level 7.7 SS today. It would be equivalent to 95% effort if I reduced my FTP setting by 5-6%.
Those are totally reasonable workouts and in the right zone completely!
That said, I do get the occasional workout recommendation that I scratch my head at, cause the workout level just doesn’t seem right to me. Maybe it is an individual thing. Regardless, I can easily look at it, compare to my other workouts in raw watts, and just pick an alternate. I have a very high success rate on this.
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With AT and Plan Builder you might see even lower. In late Oct or early Nov, with 1.0 SS PL, it gave me SSB1 SS workouts at 80%.
Yes, after AT was launched per above.
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Better than starting off too hard. And TR keeps tweaking things, it might have changed since then.
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That word again 
Wanting frequent updates on your ftp is an interesting mindset. I’ve been there too. I get it. In the end it didn’t seem to make any difference on my results, although it can be a fun distraction to play the “what’s my ftp going to be now?” guessing game.
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amen.
Exactly. That’s all many of us are after. And yet, if it were as simple as you imply, not many of us would be here discussing it.
So why all the shade throwing rather than just having a productive conversation on how to do that?
I’ve gotten frustrated and annoyed many times with TR. But it’s important to remember we’re talking about a platform seeking to serve a highly diverse user group. Which is a super hard multi-objective optimization problem. And it costs $20/mo to use it.
Anyone claiming AT magically fixes everything doesn’t know what they’re talking about. I haven’t seen many like that. I definitely don’t believe that. Which implies to me you are exaggerating a wide swath of positive experiences with AT in general, most of which don’t go so far as you state.
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When should I expect my progression levels and training plan to update after using AI FTP to update my FTP?
It’s been almost a day since I used the feature. I don’t have planned work out until next Tuesday now, so it’s not critical.
Not sure I’ll be able to manage a 6.4 threshold after a 6% bump 
Wondering if the fact that I didn’t do the offered workout after using the AI FTP and instead just deleted it has somehow messed up the updating process?
Anyone else experienced this? Is it a bug or am i just being impatient?
Email support@trainerroad.com for best help with this.
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Just for fun I ran a ramp test today. The past couple of times I’ve done the detection I’ve gotten 302 (up from currently set 295). These have come after doing a lot of sweet spot work. More recently I’ve done vo2 workouts twice a week with lots of z2 and am currently near the end of a rest week and I got 293 today. I’ve kept my ftp setting at 295 this whole time though, it’s close enough for me and I’ve been doing z2 workouts 3% higher as if my ftp were 300ish. Will be doing a threshold block starting next week so we’ll see where that takes me!
AI FTP was predicting 281 for me. I did a ramp test and came it at 280.
I suppose that’s fairly accurate but still would like to analyse where the difference comes from. What do people think?
Only joking of course. That’s a brilliant result on the estimate! Thanks TR!
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I scrolled down the page and saw the first part of the message, you seriously got me. I was about to be like 
give me a break!
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Some interesting results from the past few weeks of training
About a month ago, estimated FTP was 338, which seemed reasonable given the data available to it.
One month later of training, including two pretty notable signal workouts:
2x20 HIT workout of 30/30s and 15/15s at an average power of 350 and 340 (366 and 350NP)
1x60minute burst SST workout at an average of 322w
AI detection says FTP is 328w
Real FTP is probably ~345w with a TTE of 40-45mins given my previous state of training and how I feel right now compared to the past and the 2x20 HIT workout is pretty indicative of that since they were around threshold RPE and threshold HR.
I don’t do any off the shelf TR workouts so I’m guessing there is still some room on the unstructured ride classification. I replicated the workouts in workout builder and associated them, but the classifier for custom workouts still gives crazy results for the progression levels.
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I’m just wondering about how AI FTP treats a recovery week. Does it matter if i have AI estimate my FTP after the last intense workout of my build phase BEFORE the final recovery week? Will my FTP rise in this recovery week because of the training adaptation that takes place or will it drop because of the drop in workload?
The best way to use AI FTP Detection is probably to wait till after recovery and have AI estimate the new training base number. But i’m still curious if the AI conciders “training adaptation” or is more driven by pure workload?
Conceptually, and at least from my own peeking, I think you want to do the AIFTPD after the recovery week. It is aimed to replicate the results of a Ramp Test, and unless you had a habit of doing a RT before the recovery week and using that, I think it’s a misuse (timing at least) of the tool.
I essentially tested this with AIFTPD peeks 3 weeks in a row:
- Before the final work week = 247w
- Before the recovery week = 248w
- After the recovery week = 246w
All follows what I would expect in a general sense (certainly could be ‘noise’ too), and means that the AIFTPD likely is best wherever you’d actually test.
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I’m not sure it is as explicitly intelligent as you are implying. At least I hope it’s not trying to be, since I don’t see much utility in that. Should be an objective number that gives best case scenario on what intensity should be, where what is actually prescribed is based on current PL and choosing appropriate workout level depending on load/de-load cycle.
I’ve used it midway through a recovery week, and then 2 weeks later in the middle of a block and got similar results in increases. Hard to say from that, but while it has technically stated it is meant to predict ramp, I think what is actually meant is that it will predict what an ideal ramp test would give you with current fitness without the need to be rested in it, etc.
those are my exact numbers too, still pissed it stole 2 W from me
edit same age too, though i’m 11kg heavier 
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