Going forward what is the best way to manage outdoor workouts?
I did mount Hayes outdoors today, it was 90mins, but as it was the weekend I then did another hour just riding/endurance. It’s all recorded as one ride. So with AT coming is it better to:
end the ride when the workout is complete, and then record a separate unstructured ride.
Add something like petit outdoors to may calendar and do to separate workouts.
Just keep going as it, once the workout is complete it doesn’t make a difference?
Or for the future 4. Hit lap button to show you have moved on from the cooldown section and AT takes this as a signal it needs to consider the next lap data.
I did Winchell (VO2Max 7.3) outdoors today using a Wahoo head unit and can confirm the suspicion that it isn’t working as intended with outdoor workouts (i.e. it isn’t counting towards progression). Here is the workout showing it associated on the mobile app.
Also notable is that on the website, the workout page does not show this workout associated with any TR outdoor workout. Perhaps this is part of the problem that I’m experiencing?
Below is my recent workouts chart on the web app (this chart does not appear to be anywhere within the mobile app, which is kind of a bummer). As you can see, there is no indication of the workout being a success or not, nor is there an indication of what kind of workout it is or how it relates to my current levels. The indoor ones do show this information.
Also interesting is how it does display the workout type on Current Week, but does not show anything in that Recent Workouts section as noted in the screenshot above. You can see today’s workout is indeed labeled VO2Max 7.3 here, but for some reason that’s not making it to the Recent Workouts section.
And here is my progression chart so you can see that the VO2Max (Winchell is VO2Max 7.3, so you’d suspect it to bump up my level in this chart) is still listed as 5.2, which appears to be using my progression based on Brasted +1 on Thursday.
I would concur. Catching up on the thread today was the first I read that the the lack of AT functionality for outdoor TR workouts were specific to those with a wahoo head unit. I too, am using a wahoo head unit.
I’ve completed two outdoor workouts, observed no change in progression levels; noted the lack of Outcome and Progression levels under recent activity for the outdoor workouts … and just assumed it was across the board.
I don’t have a Garmin to compare, but based on comments from @mcneese.chad and another user further up, it would appear that the feature is working for some and not others. Colin mentioning that it is a problem with Wahoo head units was the first I heard it too.
Support email is preferred (as that guarantees they’ll see it), but they’ve also mentioned they are checking this thread for potential bugs as well. So really either works.
@Nate Please Please Please can we have a specific Forum thread where ONLY formal TR announcements and updates are made. ONLY TR staff can post there. No one else can comment on them. Then have a separate threads where comments are made (that can refer to the formal ones). Trying to work through over 2000 posts looking for the important ones and the current status is a right pain. (I am sure it is a part of the current frustration with dates etc.)
Perhaps limit the formal posts to: This is a major update. This is the expected next beta group, This is a release. We have these bugs we are fixing in the Beta. These are our next planned releases. This is happening next… Then have a separate post for everyone to discuss it. That can always refer back to the formal updates.
I must admit I am getting fed up trying to sort out the wheat from the chaff (2066 posts) of this announcement. I have resorted to just looking for TR employee answers to things. Or simply not bothering.
Just an idea…
PS I have given up waiting for this AT release, I have read the runes of continued (and appropriate) bug fixes and decided to just not get excited until I can actually see in and try it for myself) and the proper final announcement that it is fully released. It will be ready, when it is ready. Simples…
Agreed - the cynic in me thinks they announced this in March (when it was FAR from ready for the masses) as its the time of year when most of the monthly subscribers begin to cancel subscriptions, and so they dangle the lure of AT in order to keep people subscribing in the hope of getting AT instead of cancelling. I bet there are vast numbers of people that will stay a subscriber believing they will get AT any day when in fact its still a long way off for them. Master marketing stroke by TR as holding on to subscribers has to be #1 strategy for all subscription based businesses.
If AT eventually really delivers actual ‘value’ for the weekend warrior it may finally be the way to keep many people subscribing for 12 months rather than just the indoor winter season. The holy grail for a subscription business with a very seasonal product. Outdoor workouts was part 1 but this is the jewel in the crown if they make it work as promised.
As you say, deeply cynical.
Personably I don’t think it was planned like that but the net effect for TR is to retain subscriptions at a time they would normally ease off.
Nate was very specific in saying you could sign up for the beta without being a subscriber and that you could subscribe as soon as you were entered into the beta.
As for announcements @PhilSJones, the podcast each Thursday is your answer. Nate provides an update on people entered into the beta and an estimation of the next ones to add. They really have not been doing many updates on here or at all other than what is said on the podcast, so you’re not even missing anything major in this thread.
I agree about the announcement part. It would be much easier to follow. It would great for release notes as well. Now the apps are on a consistent code base I would hope to see more regular updates and following those in there own post would be very helpful @Nate_Pearson
Agree with post above that a huge problem in all of this rollout is no dynamically updated visibility to current status and known issues anywhere.
This particular problem they have with wahoo outdoor workouts also renders the fully released TrainNow feature useless if you use TR workouts on wahoo indoors or out.
I’ve been raising it for weeks and support acknowledged its a real problem. Meanwhile people keep saying TR outdoor workouts work, based on old info from Nate and others above, and it’s just not true for a very significant number of users who are discovering this piecemeal as evidenced above.
Now as to how we will know when it’s fixed? Who knows? There is no visible log of these issues being managed by TR.
Historically I’ve always thought TR had a huge edge in that while premium priced for what is a relatively simple app, it just worked all the time and was super reliable, had unique outdoor integration, and outstanding support and I have shared that view with so many frustrated zwifters. But the recent rollouts were rushed, half baked, too much at once and are not being managed well at all. It’s a huge disappointment. Support is very responsive but has no visibility to fixes and it’s grossly inefficient for all of us to keep reporting the same known things with no way to see if and when they may resolve.
In my industry, customers would crucify this kind of rollout and execution. I cannot imagine going into a customer meeting on a new product rollout with no checkpoints, eta or status for anything. TR fans keep defending this as totally normal and acceptable and maybe that echo chamber on here is a bit too loud. TrainNow is not beta. It’s out for weeks and not working for a huge segment of users for weeks because of issues like this.
Meanwhile, AT still being marketed on the forum banner. SMH…
I mean… It’s a beta. It is fully expected there are going to be bugs and some big ones at that. Only around 300 people are in the beta so it’s not impacting a large portion of subscribers, I would imagine.
Your experience in AT beta is not going to be optimal (that’s expected) but it will make it more optimal when it finally releases to the masses. You’re a guinea pig much like I and the other beta users are.
The champagne was probably too much and gave the wrong impression for how final things were, but overall I think they were correct to announce a beta (they needed users to test things). There should have just been clearer communication on how closed it would be and what it would entail.
I also think there should have been a private thread or forum for bug posts like there are with video game betas. That would allow beta users to follow any similar bugs and report additional info to streamline some things without the clutter of the rest of the users posting.
My understanding is that TrainNow is full release and it’s plagued by the same issue - TR structured workouts done on the #2 market share head unit are just ignored. So you perpetually get the same off the couch suggestions. For what it’s worth, I don’t have any access to AT but understand it’s impacting that as well - but for the vast majority that only get to use TrainNow, it’s disappointing that we have to do a bunch of tests and experimentation to figure out nope, it doesn’t work.
It’s also hard to fathom for example that nobody tried a TR outdoor workout with a Wahoo head unit before the big AT reveal and TrainNow release - and we’ve got many statements since including from TR staff that this works - but it doesn’t.
Still not clear if a FTP update totally wipes out all your levels or not - sounded like a bug that was going to be addressed - I lost track with so many mixed messages. Is a ramp test needed or not? Today or in the future? FTP changes are a pretty common use case to be very clear about. There is no central resource to say “here’s the real live status right now on the many known issues that keep popping up - don’t worry if you see them - we’re on it and are targeting this timeframe to have a fix out - check back in at this time for an update.” Podcast updates are not even close to this level of detail.
Agree that a more closed off and quieter/longer beta was and is still probably warranted to manage AT development.
But for the things that are released and should be working and have gaps affecting a lot of people, better status summaries would go a long way to restore some confidence. Even if dates slip, the engagement and communication would be appreciated.
Don’t get me wrong - this will all likely be fantastic when done and I’m excited to see it eventually… but this thread is a mess and there has to be a better way to communicate.
I misunderstood you were speaking directly about TrainNow and not AT. That is indeed an issue as that is a fully released feature at the point. I worry the issue with the outdoor workouts on Wahoo is relates to Wahoo firmware updates not not TR’s side of things. If that is the case, it could have very well been working inhouse and then a firmware update from Wahoo killed it after they added people. Not much TR can do about that if that is indeed the case.
It was serving ramp tests to people on the middle of the plan when it should not have. Not sure if it has been fixed but the answer from @bnied was follow your current plan if you’re on one and do the ramp test when it comes up on your calendar. If you are in the middle of the plan and are served one when you get added to AT, just do whatever was on your calendar for that day instead. If you’re starting a new plan, then it will give you a ramp test to start just like any plan without AT. Essentially user behavior does not need to change to make the most of AT.
I’m also all for having some patch notes for each new AT release not unlike what we got for the Android and iOS betas.
