🎉 🎉 🎉 Introducing Adaptive Training! 🎉 🎉 🎉

[Textuality]

When you’ve been using these for a number of years you do start to recognise some of the quirks in the +/- workouts. Not just that, but people react differently. I can recover extremely quickly, so I tend to do better on easier intervals with less rest than harder intervals with loads of rest. If don’t have the power / toughness for the interval, I just don’t have it… 5 minutes of rest isn’t going to change that!

[ellotheth]

@rkoswald

As best I can tell, the +/- nomenclature is based solely on TSS (remember this was done manually by (presumably) Chad when he created these workouts and their variants)

That and time. If you look through e.g. the 1-hour SSBLV workouts, -4 is usually 45 minutes, -5 is usually half an hour, +1 is usually 1:15, etc. (Like Nate said, it’s not consistent, so there are plenty of exceptions to that general convention.)

@Nate_Pearson

We hope that people can just look at the levels and use that as a gauge.

[Shadow]

I asked the same question a few million posts up… they answered that warmups/cool downs are not included in the calculations

[ellotheth]

Can I log a feature request in here? I really love the new workout alternates system that shows me options relevant to my current levels, but I’m missing two things:

1. Sometimes I really like a workout (*cough* Tunnabora *cough*) and I want to do a longer or shorter version of that workout, specifically. Those aren’t usually listed in the alternates anymore (or if they are they’re a bit buried, since it’s all based on levels), so I’ve been going to the workout search to find them. It’d be stellar if the original variants could be listed with the workout itself somehow.
2. If a workout is waaay outside my own progression levels (e.g. if my VO2max level is 1.0 and I’m looking at Baird +6), the alternates display doesn’t even show up. Again, I’ve been going to the workout search to find similar sessions at the same level (just to browse, not to do, really, AT is my co-pilot), and it’d be convenient if there were a way to see them from the workout itself.

[Bones]

@Shadow

I asked the same question a few million posts up… they answered that warmups/cool downs are not included in the calculations

Not only that, but if you go harder on the intervals, it also doesn’t appear to recognize you actually did a harder workout. Further, if you were doing a SS workout, but you actually turned it into a threshold workout, it still counts it as a SS workout.

[mcneese.chad]

@Bones

if your go harder on the intervals, it also doesn’t recognize you actually did a harder workout

• Are you certain of that?

• Considering they covered “Pass” and “Super Pass” in the intro podcast, I would expect something that exceeds the power target by enough to trigger the “Super Pass” will see that, and make different adjustments vs a normal “Pass”.

@Bones

Further, if you were doing a SS workout, but you actually turned it into a threshold workout, it still counts it as a SS workout.

• It may be true that shifting a workout significantly higher or lower, enough to change the related energy system, my still be categorized in the original one, but I don’t think we really “know” that for certain either.

• It’s entirely possible that a drastically altered workout would lead to changes in Progression Levels beyond the targeted workout. Again, I’m not sure we really know any of the deep details like this.

[Bones]

@mcneese.chad

@Bones

if your go harder on the intervals, it also doesn’t recognize you actually did a harder workout

• Are you certain of that?
• Considering they covered “Pass” and “Super Pass” in the intro podcast, I would expect something that exceeds the power target by enough to trigger the “Super Pass” will see that, and make different adjustments vs a normal “Pass”.

I’m not 100% certain, but I have done a couple of SS workouts at 5-10% higher power per interval, and there was no recognition that I did a harder workout - maybe I didn’t exceed the workout enough to get a ‘super pass’.

On my next SS workout, I test skipping the rest periods and roll straight through and see what it does and report back.

[mcneese.chad]

@Bones

there was no recognition that I did a harder workout

• What exactly are you expecting to see as the recognition?

• It’s possible that you got a “Success” rating, and gained more in your Progression Level

  • Crazy Guess Example: Maybe you got 1.5 Progression Level gain from your extra work vs what might have been 1.0 PL gain if you had just followed the original workout.

Main point being, I don’t know what we will see or how clear a “BIG WIN” signal we are seeing from TR right now. I think they are leaning towards the minimal feedback at the moment, and that can lead to questions since all we get is two main inputs (workout performance, and survey answer), and see some minor flag to workout completion (“Success”, maybe a Super Pass is different?), Progression Level change (up or down) or some other flag?

[purgatos]

I want to see a little confetti after I finish for a regular pass and lots of confetti for a super pass.

[Crownan]

@PWeber

IIRC, someone from TR has responded previously that the warmup and cooldown are ignored by AT, including any extension of the workout

@Shadow

I asked the same question a few million posts up… they answered that warmups/cool downs are not included in the calculations

I wonder if that still holds true if the cooldown is extended to 30 mins at 150%

If that is indeed correct then I wonder what TR suggest to ensure we get the required props for the additional work

[Mike_Williams]

Seems good to me.

[hubcyclist]

@hubcyclist

So I just finished Antelope, I marked it as a ‘moderate’ effort and received the following suggestion (changed from the above that was displayed yesterday):

So the weekend efforts have gone from a 5.2-5.3 to 5.5-5.6. There’s more along the way, a lot of adaptations to bring down the levels a bit, but a couple of instances of bringing the levels up. I may just go with the suggestions and see what a more gradual progression will yield vs jumping right into the higher 6 level workouts (even though I can definitely do them)

[AldridgePrior]

@Crownan

I wonder if that still holds true if the cooldown is extended to 30 mins at 150%

If that is indeed correct then I wonder what TR suggest to ensure we get the required props for the additional work

I do these extended cool-down Z2 “add-ons” all the time, typically 10-30mins.

Individually, I wouldn’t expect such add-ons to have any noteworthy effect on any TR Progression Level, so it wouldn’t seem unreasonable to me if they were essentially ignored by AT. Only if you were doing a Z2 workout and the added on time was very material would I imagine it’d even be worth the system considering.

I suppose what we’re hoping for by tacking on these extra Z2 bits to lots of our workouts is that over time they add up to “something”. That being the case, any beneficial effects arising from them would show up over time in the form of better compliance with various workouts, which AT would pick up on, and hence eventually drive better progression. That’s the hope.

[Crownan]

Good way of looking at it, thanks.

[guyc]

I am in the same boat as my “outdoor” rides aren’t being factored in.

However I just completed Pettit and said it was easy, so I am no longer all ones. Yay for me!

[d_diston]

Plan to start over the weekend at some point - out of action with an ear infection at the moment.

[Bones]

I’m assuming as you said, they are starting small by flagging something as a pass or fail and then using your survey response for future workout adaptions. I haven’t seen any of my rides getting a ‘super pass’ yet, but that could be because they haven’t implemented that yet, or I’m just not super enough!

What recognition am I looking for? I assume this is coming, but, say I’m at 5 for SS, and I do a 5.2 SS workout and do do 10% more power for each interval. I’d expect it to recognize I did a more challenging workout and give me an appropriate level that is more than the 5.2 that it was originally coded as. I suppose if you also factor in your survey result, then it could code it even more accurately.

[virppa]

Sorry this has most likely been asked before but will AT take into account if I add my completed running workouts TSS to calendar manually? Obviously it will have zero effect on my progression levels but is there some overall fatigue/TSS/TSS -ramp rate AI feature in place?

[Papuass]

It was mentioned that they want to support this (also swimming), but it is not the first item on the list.

[Basti]

I just got added to the Beta today, and I’m excited about this feature. I just need a little clarification on the outside workout. I’ve noticed that it doesn’t count into the progression, so would you guys recommend doing the majority of the workouts indoors using the platform and less outside for the time being? Thnks!