🎉 🎉 🎉 Introducing Adaptive Training! 🎉 🎉 🎉

This way be dragons. Dial a workout up, complete it. Do you dial up the next one or not? People will do both things, and both groups will be unsure if they’re doing the right thing. :thinking:

Defining the goal is obviously paramount for Adaptive Training. In my case I have two goals, which may/may not be compatible, ie, road TT (20-40kms), secondly Olympic XC MTB. I’m sure I’m not the only one in such a situation. Are there more/less compatible goals, and hence determining the Adaptive training goal/plan?

Linked to this is does each event goal type have its own energy system progression !chart or map!? Hence, can one tweak this to deal with more than one goal?

Lastly why are you using these energy system parameters as opposed to the terms you use during the workout instructions, ie, Aerobic or Anaerobic - power/endurance/capacity, VO2Max and Muscular endurance?

it’s for sure an Excel chart. But it would be very easy to implement, and it should be a great source of motivation… at least for me :smile:

Your doctor should also treat you for free if you tell them your symptoms and fill out a patient questionnaire, after all you’re giving them the data they need to do their job so why should you have to pay? At the very least you should demand a discounted co-pay

I must admit I would like that, going back a couple of years when I was on form, to compare with me trying to recover and rebuild going through a few setbacks and distractions.

it would be great to see the progression of different energy systems during different training phases.

This :point_up_2: Ditto. How will AT handle this?

So if you hired a personal coach would you demand a refund because you’d given the coach your training data and then gave them continual feedback?

That doesn’t make sense. Up to now TR have just had the data sitting there, they’ve done things like swapping workouts in the plans because of low compliance so there’s been some monitoring but until now they haven’t leveraged the power of that data. ML/AT lets them do that to our advantage. The impression (it’s no more than that) I get is that Nate isn’t keen on selling users’ data to make more money.

At the moment you get the training plans and workouts for $20(or local equivalent)/month, a coach is going to cost you $120-200/month at a minimum, TR have introduced a system that does some of the personalisation that you’d get with a coach for no extra cost and you want a discount? Seriously?

Oh gosh no - just a chart created by me in Excel.

In the same vein that FTP/W/KG graphs are created by users themselves and posted in the ‘Your FTP improvements thread’.

@patrickhill @dbf this is actually reflected in the VO2 Max progression, as well as sub progressions. We’ll always try to progress you along the same sub-progression when going through a training plan. For example, if you have on-offs scheduled on the first Tuesday of your plan, we’ll try to progress you through that type of VO2 Max workout through your training plan.

Likewise, if you have Traditional VO2 scheduled we’ll progress you through that sub progression. As you mentioned traditional VO2 max intervals (3 minutes+) can be very challenging, and our progressions levels reflect that. For example, a standard 7x3min set is a level 4.4, so we’d start you below that and work you up to that level before giving you that session. This could be in the form of shorter intervals, less intervals, more rest, lower target power, etc. There are a lot of ways we can build you up! :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

@bnied - will there be a chart similar to that posted by @Penski on our career page? From the progression levels screenshot in the podcast you can see your start point, end point and current point but not the graph of how you got there.

Edit: basically it’d be nice to see your “trajectory” across the different training zones.

We do have some different plans/thoughts on how to display progression levels on the career page to show trajectory when following a training plan.

As for progression history, this is something we’re still talking about internally since as @Penski posted, when you have an FTP increase your levels will go down, which is strange since you are stronger as a level 2 VO2 Max with a 300 FTP than as a level 9 VO2 Max with a 270 FTP. We have some ideas on how to show how much stronger you are even as your levels reset.

I’m not sure the exact answer to this, but as Nate alluded to in the Podcast last week, many of the workouts with names starting with “A” have high failure rates as folks often just choose the first few alphabetical workouts in the catalog, and some of these are very difficult (I’m looking at you, Acrodectes.) The new workout filters should drastically improve this.

As Brandon mentioned, the gentler progression AT will provide is exactly the solution to this. Let me give you a personal anecdote to this regard- I’ve always been better at VO2 and Anaerobic efforts and found Sweet Spot intervals to be particularly challenging. Using Adaptive Training, I was able to gradually develop my sweet spot capabilities over the course of a base phase. I started out suffering with 6 minute intervals, but got to the point that by the end, I successfully completed Wright Peak (3x30 @ 90-92%) with no problem. It’s all about developing those energy systems gradually, and letting them respond at their own pace.

I often, at the end of one of my primary workouts, will extend the “cool down” and do 30 or so minutes at Z2… How will this impact the AT moving forward. Would it be more appropriate to add these post ride Z2 efforts in a separate workout? Thanks for making a great product and never being satisfied!

@SeanHurley

I currently do what most call LV+, that is, LV with Z2 workouts W/F/Su. If I add those as recurring workouts, will AT modify those workouts (ie change them as it sees need), or will it only be adapting the plan-based workouts, and leave manually entered workouts as they are?

Every workout in the catalog now has a detailed difficulty ranking, and is also included in specific sub-progressions within each training plan. So your ability to complete workouts does not directly influence what the next workout you’ll receive will be. Instead, the workouts you complete determine your Progression Level for that energy system, and then within your training plan each workout is chosen to match your progression level, within the context of the specific difficulty/workout type your plan calls for on that day. For instance (I’m making this up out of thin air), perhaps Tuesday your plan calls for a challenging Sweet Spot over-under workout. Adaptive Training will find an over-under workout that is challenging for you based on your Sweet Spot Progression Level. Maybe Friday is an easier sustained interval workout; AT will find a sustained interval workout that is comparatively easy based on your Progression Level. The progression of your Training Plan is always preserved, but AT customizes each workout to be more appropriate to your ability level.

@Nate_Pearson @bnied

This is an important question that @zwillis1 brings up. You guys recommend doing additional z2 in addition to the LV plan quite a bit. Which I am sure many folks do. How will AT handle those 2 or 3 days extra days of z2 folks schedule? Should we look at using TrainNow on our z2 days instead of adding them to our calendar (I personally add z2 on days as a reoccurring workout)? Or will AT pick up the days that we do in addition to the interval days?

AT is currently not that granular in terms of looking at your workout history. It’s primarily meant to set appropriate intensity levels; it’s not going to look at the workout types you’ve completed and eliminate or include other workout styles based on that. That’s the job of a training plan, and for goal-based training Plan Builder with AT should keep you laser-focused on the skills you need. In terms of the progressions of skills and workouts within the plans themselves, those are all being improved as well, using data we’ve learned from implementing Adaptive Training. This will make the plans a better template on which to build adaptations, and also make them generally more progressive for folks that aren’t on an Adaptive Plan, too.

Curious about this as well

Complete conjecture here …

I’m wondering if Plan Builder is a necessary sub-structure for AT to link to our training. TR couldn’t make it too flexible or obvious without giving away their future plans about AT. I.e. they crippled its main purpose but released it as pre-step. So currently if you insert a rest/illness week into a plan structure you get a popup saying that will stop you making any other changes. From what I’ve understood from the podcast it won’t be like that in the future, insert a week for illness/vacation/delayed event and the combination of PB & AT will just take care of it.

What isn’t clear (to me) is what happens long term - do you just keep accepting workouts from “the system” or do you have to keep adding target events and plans via Plan Builder for the AT to work.

Something that does strike a chord with me regarding overtraining: put an event into Plan Builder a year out or so and you just get a near constant load, there’s no “You’ve been training for 6 months, you need three weeks chilling.” type time off.