How do people feel about the accuracy of FTP AI detection?

Do what now?

The lords interval. #bless

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The best muscular endurance maintenance workout. :sunglasses:

Drop your FTP to 190 and see how you get on with a 3 x 10.

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This is the way!

If you’re completing all your workouts and progressing your workout levels then you’re progressively increasing the intensity and duration of intensity.

FTP adaptations are not always predictable mainly due to recovery quality.

However, eventually either your FTP will improve or you will plateau due to poor recovery and lack of adaption.

I think the hardest part here is for athletes performing the majority of their rides outside. Unless you make an effort to stay faithful to the prescribed workout it is so easy to drift and subsequently invalidate progression levels

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This is exactly what I was experiencing as well. AIFTP seemed to be over estimating my FTP by just enough to make 2.0 Threshold workouts to be all out. After a 2 week off-season in January 2024, I reset my FTP using a ramp test which went down by 40 watts. I had to start at level 1.0 and slowly build them up. AIFTP would constantly increase my FTP even though I would fail a level 2 or 3 threshold workout. It didn’t make sense. I even contacted support, where they tried to tie it back to my recovery or something I was doing. I finally started to ignore the FTP increases and focus on increasing the workout levels on my own. I like the concept and am now hitting threshold workouts with some consistency. I like trainerroad workouts and calendar, but I have lost faith in AIFTP.

Just want to add my $.02

I have been very happy with the AI FTP, if anything it has been a spot low. I let it do its thing all last year always choosing to accept adaptations and I was bumping against a 4 W/kg.
As typical with winter break I’m down to 3.5 W/kg, did a ramp test to confirm, no change.

Convinced a friend to finally sign up, they did an initial test and were within 2 FTP of AI’s analysis.

I don’t think I have ever failed a workout, except for lack of time. As an advanced cyclist, I’m very happy with TR.

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Did you ever validate your ftp another way? Ramp test, long effort, the grade on Zwift?

Wanted to add, I’m quite happy with TR. For someone who doesn’t have a coach, it gives a TON of benefit for the cost. Unfortunately, I’m just one of those who appear to be outside the bell curve for AI/ramp test results. I’m learning to set my FTP through other methods (longer tests) and will continue using the product for all of its other benefits.

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At the time I did not validate it by another way. I reached out to support because I kept failing threshold workouts even at easier levels like 2.1. I thought it was a bug in the system. Support said that it looked like my FTP was accurate. Then I took a 2 week break at the end of the cyclocross season. Took a ramp test which placed me 40 watts lower than what my previous FTP was. I worked my FTP back up to where I was previously and then I started failing workouts again, if the workout level was increased by too much. For example, I would be at 2.2 and I would fail a 2.6 workout, but complete a 2.3 threshold workout. I have since ignored AIFTP until my threshold levels are feeling achievable and not always all-out. Then I will accept an AIFTP increase.

What you tell is weird to say the least. For me AIFTP and workout levels prescribed seem to be calculated ok. VO2 WO are by design to make you fail now and then or just get them done by an inch. Yesterday got off one 1h30 just feeling crushed and on the last two sets spent most time thinking Im going to quit Im going to decrease the % but kept one going ending them all by a thin thread.
After the workout on the survey I answered all out and the reason I’ve picked was WO intensity and after my answers got an adaptation suggestion to make my next vo2 WO a notch lower in IF and TSS and WO level. It seems the correct response of the AI to my performance.
In your case the response doesnt correspond to your performance and feelings.:thinking:

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After gaming the system a lil bit with splitting up my 60 min rides into two 30 min rides the last week, I was finally able to use AI ftp. Though I think TR ā€˜caught on’ and didn’t credit two 30 min rides as ā€˜indoor training’. Regardless, it gave me an 11 watt bump. I also did a ramp test for the time in probably, well, whenever it was introduced and I can say I gave up kind of early. So I’ll follow the plan, take the ftp bumps whenever they come, and will be updating the plans for longer weekend rides soon enough.

On the post workout surveys, I’ve been pretty honest. Only one workout in the last 3’ish weeks I put as ā€˜moderate’ - which was threshold/ss over unders.

Honestly, I am not sure what I think about it. When I came back to TR a month ago, I was at the tail end of an exceptionally stressful time, and a bout of flu like illness over Christmas which floored me. I was expecting quite a significant drop in FTP, perhaps 20 watts or something, but it just put it down a few watts from when I last used Trainerroad.

I’ve just triggered my 28 day AIFTP after 3 weeks of training where I didn’t fail a workout (although I did mess up button pressing on a couple of outside workouts and lost an interval or two), nothing was particularly taxing that the system gave me, I added some volume but this was 99% endurance stuff (Heart rate z2 mostly with a little z3 because it’s hilly where I live and I need a smaller chainring!), didn’t train on a red day, only did a bit of endurance on yellow days, and saw my garmin VO2 estimation go up. I was ultra cautious on recovery week and have literally just been pootling about feeling like I am climbing the walls a bit ready to train. The initial intervals and harder (scheduled) group rides were a bit of a shock to the system as I haven’t really done anything intensive for a while, but I felt good and definitely like I could have ridden for much longer on the last group ride I did. I actually stopped because I have been cautious about not overdoing it.

You know what? AIFTP put my FTP DOWN by 2 watts. I’m sorry but there is no way that is right. 28 days ago I was definitely no where near as fit as I am now. It was actually quite disheartening, right up until I realised that it just seemed daft.

Nearly as daft as the ā€˜Train Now’ suggestion to ā€œREST because my recent training stress is highā€ that I got earlier today, at the end of a recovery week with a total of 145 TSS split over 3 very easy paced rides - hardly high recent training stress!

I also thought I would rerun the plan builder today. 28 days ago I asked it to give me a plan for a 400 km non stop event with well over 8000 meters of climbing at the end of May. It gave me 3 hrs 45 minutes a week and said anything else was too much. Even after a month of more normal volume (for me) and not training on a red day, and not getting sick, and feeling fitter, it still gave me 3 hrs 45 minutes a week.

I’ve deleted my plan and I am just going to wing it.

So how do I feel about the AI stuff? Honestly, doubtful. Maybe it’s right, who knows. I don’t disagree I am very average in power terms, but I definitely question as to whether I am on a downward trajectory, or even holding steady, at least at this point in time when compared to 28 days ago when I have been following workouts and tying myself to the power zones.

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FTP =/= fitness.

There are many factions to your fitness. FTP just sets your training zones. You can significantly improve your TTE based on the training you accomplished and not necessarily increase your FTP.

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I wonder if TR could make public the ā€œfitness scoreā€ they’ve hinted at in the past. IIRC it was a combination of ftp, weight, and progression levels.

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Sounds like your fitness is on the way up. But I think you are a bit optimistic to expect big FTP swings in one month of training. I suggest you keep with it and those increases will come.

Regarding your plan, you just need to enter the volume you know you can complete and will stick with, and override the suggestions of the system.

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I don’t think AI FTP is quite there yet. As I peaked for a 3 stage tour, AI FTP had me at 307. 4 weeks later after a lot of time of just outdoor riding (2 crits a week and a lot of Zone 2), it suggetsed a drop to 304, which I ignored and kept at 307. In the last 4 weeks, I’ve hit two equal 20min records of 337W two weeks apart (which equates to an FTP of 320W) and 8min record of 350W (which equates to an FTP of 315W). Meanwhile AIFTP suggested 307W. I’ve set my FTP at 318W. I have sent the question off to the podcast. Hopefully I get a reply, but at the same time, I’m happy to hear from others.

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You can always ride at 307 (or your estimated 320) and see how long you can hold it and report back. It would be kinda cool experiment to see how the numbers size up! :+1:t2:

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Send it to Support too.