I’m still at the ‘thought experiment’ stage. This is my first time on TR although I’m used to ~600 hours/year semi-structured.
One thing I don’t think we’ve mentioned is the mental load of doing supra-threshold efforts. For example, I don’t think I could do vo2 max and threshold workouts year round, so that has to be taken into account.
Whatever I decide to do, I’ll endeavour to provide some kind of update to see how it goes
So speaking to this, I did HV with even MORE volume and I have to say, having now transitioned to a more MV style week with still a lot of volume. I’m starting to fail workouts. I failed 1 workout in 12 weeks doing my HV stuff.
I’m on a TR SSB programme for the first time. I am in week 2 of SSB HV2 and also a little perplexed as to how I am going to adapt to SusPB having not ridden above SST for months if you account for SSB base 1&2 and for the off-season before that.
I am assuming it is doable otherwise TR would not of created it this way or / and recommended it as part of plan builder.
Has anyone transitioned from HV to MV training and, if so, do you have any tips or suggestions?
I’ve been fortunate enough to do HV plans for the last year or so. However, I think it is really starting to wear on me. I’ve struggled to complete nearly every supra-threshold and VO2 workout in SusPB. Plus I’ve moved and now have a much longer commute.
I don’t race and primarily do fondos and centuries. However, I get a lot of satisfaction from the process of training and maintaining fitness, and don’t want to give it up.
I’m thinking about doing SSB-HV following SusPB because I also feel that I need a break from intensity. SSB-MV still has threshold and VO2 work, and I did SSB-MV before SusPB so I don’t really want to do it again. I’m a bit OCD about completing all of the workouts as prescribed but think I’ll be disciplined enough to reduce the mid-week 1-hour SS ride to endurance if I continue to struggle. Once SSB is done I’ll have Plan Builder map out a MV plan for the spring and summer (I’ve already put SSB-HV where Plan Builder would put SSB-MV).
Thoughts, comments, and constructive feedback appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Just poking my head into this thread, SSB2 HV was awesome until it wasn’t lol I’m in week 5 and nailed a tough workout Tuesday, but I knew yesterday and today would be dicey because of some other life stuff. I had to drive down to my hometown yesterday to attend a family member’s funeral and didn’t have a good eating day so when I tried Galena late in the afternoon I had to back off the 94 and 92% intervals. Today was wright peak -1, which I had nailed last weekend but riding in the morning really made it hard because I wasn’t completely recovered from yesterday. Not going to give myself a hard time, after many weeks of quality SS work.
I had thought about subbing the weekend SS for long endurance to switch things up a bit, and given my last couple of days I think I’ll go with that approach, so I may do back to back 3hr rides this weekend (would love to go 4hrs, but that’s a big jump mentally to sit on the trainer vs 2hr sessions)
Goal is to sustained power HV next
Seriously, Tallac+4 in the final week of SSBHV 2. That was horrible this morning! I’m surprised I was able to finish that.
I ended up going with big mountain in lieu of that one. About the same tss (I set my target 2% higher) but obviously easier (although debatable that 3hrs on a trainer is easier lol). I’m hoping to repeat it tomorrow, ideally I would have done 3.5-4hr rides, but it takes a special kind of crazy to jump right up to that length indoors.
I am in exactly the same situation as you. Currently at the end of HV general build and am just fried.
This will be my 3rd year of HV now. I usually get to the point where the weather is getting better and I just abandon the plan at whatever stage I’m at and go back to unstructured riding.
However, this year I am really struggling. More mentally than physically. Those long intervals coupled with the shorter ones that I barely feel able to complete have worn me down.
Therefore, I am seriously considering dropping to MV just to try and get the routine and compliance back.
I must confess that I do question the efficacy of HV. Every year I nail base volume 1 &2 with 100% compliance, then it all starts going wrong during build. Maybe it needs looking at by the TR team as it seems like I’m not on my own in this regard. I suspect the ramp up in intensity is a little too aggressive.
It’s been my experience that MV Builds actually have more intensity for a lack of volume. I’ve now done 4 MV Builds in the past and each one has torn me down. Looking at the comparison of MV vs HV Build plans (ShortPB), the HV looks more doable with less intensity. I have yet to do a HV Build, that starts after next weeks recovery, but I’m hoping I will feel better than I did on MV.
As I’m about to finish SSBHV 1 & 2 for the first time, I find it better/more productive than SSB MV. Personally, I feel the SSB MV plans have too much intensity. Almost 3 years into structured training with TR, I’m coming to the conclusion that TR puts a bit too much intensity in their plans. At least that’s the case for me. Since clearly I can handle volume, as I still feel pretty good after SSBHV 2, it’s the intensity that seems to be overwhelming.
Looking at the difficulty/intensity level of each day’s workout in the MV vs HV ShortPB plans, it appears that HV will be a better option for me. I just wonder if possibly that Wednesday workout would be better served as an “Easy” day.
I will try to tackle the SSHV 1, but most likely omit the Z2 ride to get two days off the bike.
I know there is #FTFP but, I do not think taking this session would have any large impact on the overall training adaptions.
Wish me luck.
I did 4 hours Z1-Z2 once. It was like I had ran a stinky humidifier in my house for 4 hours. Exactly like that
I did HV sus power build last year, but not after HV base since I had done my own thing. The first 4 weeks went great. The wheels came off after a jump from ramp test at the mid-way point. Maybe it was a brittle fitness thing, I’m not sure.
I do wonder if the progression is just too much for me since I am at a point of being highly trained compared to maybe the average user. The plans seem to progress having increased fitness baked in, so it is a double whammy for me when there is a step change in targets after a jump in estimated FTP after a ramp test.
I had grand plans to do another 3hr endurance ride after yesterday’s 3hr session but I just did the last workout of ssb2 hv. Gonna enjoy the heck out of the easy week
Last week, I decided to stop the HV build plan, because it has way too much intensity for me. Just like last year, I finished SSBHV1&2 with 100% compliance and just a handful of tough days. Last year, I felt bad after the first 3 weeks of build and had to take 2 weeks of the bike.
This year, I had 3 weeks of holiday around Christmas and New Year (thanks to COVID 
) in which I could do the first 3 weeks of the build phase. So, this time I really focused on maximizing my recovery: going to bed early, eating healthy and enough, minimizing other stress, etc. The 3 weeks of build went fine, recovery week too, but during the ramp test, I was lacking the mental strength to keep pushing.
Last year, I also noticed that my mental strength was low after a lot of intensity rides. I think I can handle the intensity physically if I pay a lot of attention to recovery, but I cannot handle it mentally. I also start to understand why only 1-2 high intensity sessions are advised by other coaches. So, last week, I decided to try something completely different: a lot of Z2 riding, which I enjoy, with only 1-2 short intensity rides per week and limited VO2max work. That is closer to what I used to do in the past (high volume Z2). Let’s see what it brings!
ShortPB HV, what workout/s would you remove/replace for less intensity?
Finished SSBHV 1 & 2 and handled it very well with 100% compliance. Ramp test went well with an all time high FTP. It was only a 6w increase so it shouldn’t have too much of a dramatic affect going into Build. Just wrapping up first week of ShortPB HV and had my first possible sign/warning after Sunday’s SS workout (Tallac+3). Even though I just did that workout 4 times in SSBHV without issue, it was too much today and I called it after starting the 4th interval. It’s the first workout I haven’t completed in over 3 months. Maybe I could have pushed out the last two intervals of Tallac+3 but I’m very cautious about over reaching and want to listen to my body.
So I’m already questioning if some modifications of the HV plan are needed. I can handle volume, but I’m concerned with my ability to handle 3 days of intensity and then capping the weekend with more SS on exhausted legs. If the 2nd week of Build is looking like its too much, I want to be prepared to substitute workouts. Switching to a MV plan, which I’v done 4 times in the past, is not a solution as it actually has more intensity with just less volume.
My suggestion having moved to doing a ton of volume is substitute the Sunday ride for a longggg z2 ride. Like 4 hours +.
I’m doing intensity tues thurs sat. 2 hours of z2 every day but Monday and I’m managing pretty well. However if I try and do higher intensity on Sunday I tend to find I’m not well recovered enough Tuesday
I would second what @jacemano said above. Some weeks my Sunday long z2 ride is the only chance I get to go outside, so mentally it helps too. It also means you have potentially 72 hours between hard workouts. I know z2 isn’t recovery, but when you’re grinding away at SS it kinda feels like it in a weird way.
Good advice. I’ve changed my Sundays to z2 rides, which unfortunately will be inside due to weather, and I’ve removed the sprints from Wednesdays’ z2. I plan to ride these Z2 workouts by feel and adjust them down a few % if needed.
Similar experience, and based on some input and thoughtful analysis documented in another thread, I am beginning to think the ramp test isn’t good for me. I can score high on it, but not back up the threshold/VO2 workouts on the numbers it scales to. And I get a false sense of security from sweet spot work - the only time I struggle on that is when I come into shelled/mentally deflated from killing myself and failing on threshold/VO2 workouts.
If you can complete SSBHV your FTP is not inflated and you likely didn’t have an inaccurate ramp test. In fact in some of the workouts Coach Chad says if you complete said workout it’s time for an FTP bump. Regarding VO2 workouts, the percentages in the workout are guidelines/starting point. You are supposed to adjust VO2 workouts to ensure you are getting the correct stimulus. For instance, these are the instructions for my VO2 workout tomorrow:
“Important: Performing these intervals at 125% FTP assumes you can complete the intervals with few/no breaks. If you’re frequently skipping repeats or backpedaling during the brief floats, reduce the Workout Intensity to your repeatable aerobic power.”
If you’re “failing” VO2 then you likely tried to hold onto an unrealistic power number. Regarding threshold, if you’re bringing in too much fatigue then they’d be increasing difficult to impossible. If you’re killing yourself to finish a workout then that would be a red flag something is wrong. Too high of a FTP can be a cause, but looking at you’re previous work would be a better indicator. I realized after week 1 of ShortPBHV that in my case that 4th day of “intensity”, even though it was only SS, was going to be too much. It was too much intensity rather than too hight of a FTP. So I’m hoping and expecting that reducing Wednesdays z2 by feel and Sundays SS to a longer z2 workout, that for once the Build plan won’t beat me down.
