Wow every day except one…that’s massive. I wouldn’t be doing more than 3 sweet spot sessions a week, but of course TIZ is important. Am currently at 80-90mins per session, so I think 6 days a week would kill off my season before it starts
I had tried to add to my post, but the forum wouldn’t let me based on a rule that no more than a certain number of replies are needed.
My first week of build was a disaster.
My first day after ramp was Bays+1: aerobic endurance with three short sprints in it. An issue I’ve been having is that my eTap high limit screw is not set correctly, and I have not been able to fix it since it is seized. This has been causing the chain to pop over the big chainring occasionally on upshifts. Normally it is an annoyance. In this instance, going into the first sprint, I powered into the upshift and it ended up destroying my chain after it went over and then back inbetween my frame/crankset. Turns out I also broke my PM in the process - an apparent issue with Quarq Dzeros not being able to take a side load from the inside. This added mental stress to the week getting things put back together for a host of reasons. Luckily I have a backup quarq from the TT bike. Unfortunately it is 170 cranks, and a 53 chain ring instead of 172.5 cranks and 52 chain ring. Don’t seem like big differences, but I swear it made a difference on my attempts at the threshold workouts first week of build.
My first hard workout was stromlo+6: 5 x 8 at 102% on 5 min RI. I made the first 1.5 intervals, and that was it. Legs felt like trash. Ended up failing Paliside a few days later, which is 3x9min over-unders. Hard to tell how much was stress, slightly different equipment, and just not being used to intensity. Probably a combination of all three.
Regardless, I pulled the plug on the build plan and tried a 4 week block (3 weeks on, 1 recovery) of V02 progression that I’ve read Chad talking about on another thread. Basically start with 30/30s and progress up to 3 min VO2 max efforts over a 3 week period. I made it through that progression up to 2 min intervals (Mills) and the wheels started coming off at end of week 2. Probably one too many VO2 workouts in a week. In the process of this I got my warrantied quarq back and on my standard setup.
Since it was the holidays, it ended up being around 2 weeks reduced volume. Took a ramp and dropped back down to 282, right where I started with SSB HVI.
So things have been pretty frustrating. I was as strong as I have ever been at end of SSB, but for whatever reason the jump to build didn’t work. I’ve gone back to SSB II MV, which looks a lot like a build plan to me. I’ve been hitting power targets fine, and usually come in 1-4% above target depending on the workout. We’ll see how things go.
Different PM and different bike, you should have retested. You can assume you’re comparing apples to apples.
Sounds pretty rough! The transition from SSB HV to Sustained Build does look a big leap. Perhaps there should be some optional supra-threshold efforts in the long Sunday ride
Transition from SSBHV to any Build looks tough. I’ll be moving to Short Power Build HV after SSBHV and it looks intimidating! Other than the ramp tests, I haven’t been out of SS for 3 months and now I get VO2 efforts .
If all Builds are the same, I guess there must be a reason why some kind of transition period isn’t included
Could you describe your plan or post a screenshot of your calendar? I’m interested in a plan like this
I tried SSBHV -> General Build HV last year. I cracked during the 6th week. Took me two or three weeks of rest and recovery rides to get back to feeling good. I’m gonna try it again this this year but I’m apprehensive
Same bike - I moved the PM.
Also, I static weight test all my PMs. The one I swapped to was within less than 1% of the one that broke.
It is odd that it goes from nothing above 94% to supra threshold work and VO2max almost right away. For me at least, there needs to be transition between the two, or simply knocking down the supra threshold stuff. I honestly think the MV SSB II is almost perfect for this. Next time I go through base phase, I may do HV SSB I -> HV SSB II -> MV SSB II. There is a good amount of work in that 95-105% range and VO2max range that allows for adjustment before going into a build. Lower intensity volume can be added to that if desired.
There is a thread I came across called “Short intense period before starting base? Chad’s short FTP boost plan”
Here is Chad’s response, from Nov. 18 on that thread that I based my work on:
" There isn’t a plan for this, but it’s a pretty easy thing to slap together if you comb the workout catalog’s VO2max oerings. Personally, I like starting short (30-second repeats) and growing the durations over a block as short as a single week to as long as 3 weeks depending on when my progress and/or motivation starts to stall.
It never fails to surprise me how much more manageable 3-minute VO2max repeats are if I start short and work my way up to these longer jobbers, even if I do it over the course of 5 workouts in a single week. Kinda amazing, certainly motivating, both in terms of the quick progress but also the psychological lift I get prior to embarking on another training season.
An example would be something like this: Gendarme or Taylor -2, Stanislaus -4, Freel +1, Bashful, Baird +2, Mills or Gawler, Dade +1, then finally something awful like Spencer.
It’s also worth mentioning that “peak & fade” intervals like those in Mills or Agassiz are another route to take when the sustained eorts really beat you up. They ramp up your resources really quickly and then drop watts without dropping the O2 demand or hampering the training stimulus. And of course there’s something about knowing that the watts are falling that’s pretty encouraging when I’m all but ready to quit."
After doing it, There were a couple issues that would have me approach it differently:
I am at a stage where it takes a long time to see improvement in fitness. So I was probably too aggressive with the V02 work and over-reached “Even though I could, I shouldn’t have” type deal.
I should have gone way easier on other days than I did. Things started out fine, but once I progressed to longer efforts, I started failing the workouts.
This was the progression I did with results, with other days having easy (probably not easy enough) rides:
Mon: Taylor (Completed no problem)
Wed: Stanislaus - 4 (Completed no problem)
Fri: Feel +4 (Completed no problem)
Mon: Baird +5 (Completed, needed focus)
Wed: Mills +3 (Completed, pushed to limit)
Fri: Dade +4 (cracked after 5 of 9 intervals)
Mon: tried Dade+4 again, cracked again, switched to Baird-3 and made it
Wed: Gawler, cracked towards end of first set
Pulled the plug and did lowish volume sweet spot work/easy stuff for a week, then a recovery week.
Yeah, the jump is just a bit too much.
I’m currently doing the SSB HV1 plan, but adapting it a little bit to take account of my learnings from having gone through the high volume progression last year.
I have taken out the SSB HV1 two hour Saturday sweet spot rides, and replaced them with the Saturday over/under rides from the SSB MV1 plan (90 minutes). I have also dropped the Friday easy ride - I just extend the cool down on the Saturday ride to make it up to 2 hours.
Once I have completed this adapted SSB HV1, I will move on to an edited SSB HV2, with basically the same changes as with the first phase. I will switch out the Tuesday sweet spot workout for the Tuesday VO2 max workout from SSB MV2. I will probably also swap out the Saturday sweet spot for the SSBMV2 Saturday rides, which are a bit more intense but slightly shorter. Again I’ll drop the Friday rides and just extend the cool down on the Saturday rides.
Hopefully this will mean that the jump to the extra intensity in base won’t be so dramatic.
I do wonder whether the progression of the high volume plans is due a revisit by the TR team, but I guess the amount of people that actually do the HV plans properly is very small
This sounds like accumulated fatigue perhaps, verging on overtraining. Rest is incredibly important but the temptation can be to drive on, then everything stands a good chance of going pear shaped
Didn’t mean to delete my last comment. Not sure how to undo it…
Looking through SSB HV2, SSB MV2 and Sustained PB HV the averages are:
SSB HV 2 = 11hr – 688TSS – 5 SS, 1 z2
SSB MV 2 = 6.5hr – 436TSS – 1 Vo2, 2 Thr, 1 SS, 1 z2
SPB HV = 9.75hr – 625TSS – 1.5 Vo2, 1.5 Thr, 1 SS, 2 z2
To try to bridge the intensity gap between SSB HV2 and Sustained PB, whilst also limiting midweek rides to 1hr30, I’ve created the following:
Tue – 1hr vo2
Wed – 1:30 SS
Thu – 1:30 SS
Fri – 1hr z2
Sat – 1:30 Thr or O/U
Sun – 2:00 SS (or long z2 outdoors)
This works out at 8.5hr, 567 TSS and incorporates both types of supra-threshold sessions you can expect to find in Sustained PB
If you’re talking about my failed build coming out of HV base, I doubt the over training explanation. I had a high degree of compliance on the base plans and felt great. Took the recovery week, PR’d the ramp test and then cracked early on first hard workout. Mental and physical energy was very high coming out of base.
If you’re talking about the micro build I did after that, then I agree I overcooked things there.
If it were me, I’d consider dropping the SS after the VO2 and O/U. I wouldn’t worry much about TSS and focus on nailing those VO2 and O/U. At least for me, TSS isn’t the same from a VO2 or O/U workout. Work on nailing those two workouts and progressively increasing the workload on them. I’d do something like 1 VO2, 1 O/U and 1 threshold type workout. If you are drained on the threshold, just drop it to SS or tempo.
Keep the rest pretty easy and just focus on nailing those three key workouts per week.
I can stack SS on top of SS like crazy. If I start hitting above that, I need to drop the work on other stuff.
The Wed/Thu SS workouts are the main difference between this Hybrid plan and SSB MV2, as well as an easy Friday ride.
Looking at it after I posted, I was thinking the Thu would probably be better as a tempo (Glassy, Looking Glass) potentially building towards a long tempo effort, something like Phoenix
That’s a good observation. The one thing to consider is that SSB HV2 is not just MV2 with added volume. The drop in volume/TSS going from HV -> MV is accounted for by an increase in intensity. Doing MV2 right now, it is much much harder to complete the hard workouts than HV2 was for me. As in, HV2 I never came that close to cracking. MV2 I’ve had to dig deep to finish a few workouts.
I look forward to hearing your experience with this.