Late November I did a ramp test and increased my FTP from 250 to 264. I will be 61 in May and was kind of surprised at the increase. I have been struggling with VO2 max and sweet spot. I did Mills VO2 max on Tuesday and Tray Mountain sweet spot on Thursday. I had to dial down Mills on the last two intervals and after 5 minutes into the last 20 minute interval on Tray Mountain I just couldn’t keep pushing the pedals and bailed. I was going to lower my ftp a bit, but then recalled that I’ve always struggle with V02 max at 120% and have managed OK at 110-115%. With that in mind, I did the Phoenix tempo ride keeping the 264 FTP. I had to dig pretty deep, but managed to finish. I decided to compare my last Phoenix ride from 10 months ago. For the recent ride my HR continued to increase throughout the ride, peaking at 163, but had leveled off for the ride last year about 25 minutes in at 144. I’m not sure what I’m going to do with my FTP going forward.
Great answer @markbrouns. Thanks
It confirms the theory that something that most of the time works for most people is as good as it can be. But for the remaining few, we sometimes drop the intensity on certain types of workouts.
…and that 72-79%'s a big spread. On a good day I can go very deep anaeobically and way overperform on the ramp test, so I’m very much the 72% end of that scale. I tend to be able to complete the workouts except when it gets to 60+minutes of Sweetspot in 15+minute chunks.
Experience helps a load, Knowing what Sweetspot feels like, the difference between the 88% and 94% ends, knowing the difference between being right at threshold 98-102% and being at 105%. Makes it reasonably easy to know when FTP is off by enough to make a difference.
I think that’s where any one test will struggle to tell the true numbers. There are so many different layers to ‘point of failure’. It starts with someone who bails early on, as soon as their mind/body starts screaming at them to stop. It ends with someone like my mate who ended up hospitalised twice with Rhabdomyolysis which is due to massive amounts of tissue damage.
At the end of the day the ramp test still does it’s job pretty well. I think most people who bail earlier than others are also going to get the right level of training for their situation.
As they progress the mental fortitude will grow, as does mine everytime I push myself a little harder.
Guess which workout I have on my calendar today?
Going out too hard is the winner. If it’s a training run it’s around the 2-3 hr mark, so hitting a wall is good with me. I can’t say it’s ever really stopped me dead in my tracks. It’s more of a point where I don’t even bother trying to ride up the really steep bits.
My first ride had me doing this at the first steep hill.
Thanks for the link to the blog.
I flat out reject that comment! ;). Recovery rides aside, I’ve never done a ride that’s easy. If I don’t get the shakes or throw up in my mouth a little it’s a good ride.
Honestly, Lamark finishes with an annoying smirk on the power output at the end. Whiteface(throw up in mouth). Bashful +2 is impossible if I’ve had a hard day at work (hence 3 tries to complete). Junction -1 was full blown laughing/tears while laying on my back next to the bike.
I still haven’t completed Junction -1.
My 1 minute power is pathetic. 5 second, 5 minute and hour are solid for the time spent training.
Sometimes it just helps to vent a little and use tongue in cheek humour.
Carpathian Peak for me tonight after my 4% / 9 W bump from ramp testing on Saturday which gave me 3, 4, 5 and 6 minute PB’s.
Bit apprehensive to say the least…
Sorry haven’t found that to be the case. I’ve tested with the 20 minute FTP test previous to trying the Ramp test and came out within 1 watt of each other. Since that time I’ve used the Ramp test after each training plan or during triathlon training plan every 6 weeks. The corresponding workouts from each test have been hard but manageable. I’m able to finish them, some just barely, and I see increases in each test so I feel that the workouts are pushing me to a higher fitness. The Ramp test is uncomfortable but still an easier way to test and not bury yourself in fatigue.
I was garbage after my 3,8% increase for about 1 week. Then I just accepted defeat and started to look at IF and workout duration. Everything above .84 IF was too hard but now at week 3 im completeing them all. Looking at your workouts - they are LONG workouts and maybe (like me) you need to build that fitness to sustain that hogher FTP for those long durations ! Keep on riding
Not yet. It’s hard to tease everything out so that it’s meaningful. Most people don’t follow the plan exactly and you’d have to look at past training history, age, gender, and total fitness.
I’d really like to figure this out though.
I did a 40 min max test. My ftp based on this test is lower (more precise than the ramp test), which i already expected. I always lower my FTP based on a short (including 20 min) test…
Tomm
Sounds like once you get through the first week, the workouts became more manageable? I didn’t want to reduce the load just yet, as I’m in the first week of my new FTP… I really struggled on the first workout in General build…
I think that sometimes if you’re used to a set ftp for a number of weeks and it goes up by say 20 watts one day it can be tough, especially if you move from base to build.
I have found that I know where I am now and just adjust my number accordingly. Edging it up slowly helps me keep things consistent. If you don’t do that then I think you just need to gut it out. I think that I heard chad in the podcast mention once that the first week is designed a little easier to allow for you to grow in to it.
As you train at a higher intensity your body should learn to deal with the new levels (that’s what it’s all about right) so yeah they should get more manageable but they also get harder too. It’s always intended to stretch you, not quite to breaking point but near enough.
As another 60+ rider (OMIL?), I’ve always (3 times) had problems transitioning into the build phase. We run into workouts types that we haven’t prepared for in the base phase. For example, Sustained Build mid has the Red Lake +8 “threshold” workout with intervals at 108% of my recently bumped FTP. The previous threshold base workout was Lamark at only 100% of my old FTP. This is a huge jump for me that no amount of recovery or caffeine seems to overcome. (Looking quickly at the last 10 “All Rides” of Red Lake +8 I see that that 7 of 10 riders were able to complete it at 100%, however. Good job to those riders!)
Similarly in previous years, there was no preparation in base for the microbursts in Spanish Needle. It was interesting to see how far I could get, but it didn’t end up with a fun or successful badge.
Agree with @pwandoff, I spent years struggling with 120%, would burn me out quickly. Started doing 115 - 116% and I find they hurt, my breathing is better through the session, and I can recover a lot quicker. I think that plans are great, but every user needs to adapt to their needs
OP UPDATE
So after I reduced my FTP down -4% (276) in week 2 of GBMV the workouts were still a challenge, but manageable. I was able to complete them as prescribed but they didn’t completely bury me and crush my soul as week 1 did at 287.
The recovery week 4 of GBMV was taxing and my quads were always sore. Towards the end of the recovery week I kept reducing the intensity of my z2 rides in hopes my legs would recovery. They still felt a bit sore starting the beginning of week 5. Even though I did everything to recover and baby them. Then boom, a rather disappointing and surprising ramp test results today of 282. WTF!?!
I don’t get it? My FTP is now lower than it was when I tested 4 weeks ago at the beginning of GBMV. Sure it’s slightly higher (2%) than what I was training at over the last 3 weeks, but I was expecting a bigger jump. Should I have not reduced my FTP from 287 and found a way through those first weeks of GBMV?
I’m lost 
All these FTP tests are within the margin of error for general day to day variation.
I’d just focus on training consistently. If you’re doing that you’re going to improve.
Haven’t been able to do sweet-spot workouts at 95-99% of FTP. I can do about 89% of FTP and no more. This after 6 weeks of SSB LVI and 2 weeks of SSB LVII
- For clarity, TR defines:
- Sweet Spot: 88-95% of FTP
- Threshold: 95-105% of FTP
May just be a naming difference, but you are likely talking about Threshold above. As such, the expected effort at 95-99% (Thresh) should be higher than for SS.
Yes you’re right - I can’t do threshold workouts. VO2 Max workouts haven’t been an issue though.
I wonder if my inability to do threshold workouts will substantially decrease the training benefit, but I guess completing at 89% intensity is better than blowing up at 100% intensity
This is worth review:
You may be making and adjustment (reducing intensity) that is not the right one.
- Dropping to 89% from 95-105% (Thresh) really drops you into SS range.
- You may still get an overall training benefit, but if you do that reduction consistently, you may not be helping yourself in the Thresh range.
- Essentially, you might be hurting yourself in the very zone where you need to gain.
- If the prescription is the Threshold range, I think you are better off to keep it at least in the 95+% of FTP range, and employ back pedaling or extended recoveries between intervals.