I was able to do the first threshold interval at full intensity, but other intervals seemed a bit much. I will try doing my next threshold interval at full intensity and see how I hold up.
I recommend taking a hard look at the next Thresh workout ahead of time. Knowing your recent difficulty, plan to stay at set intensity, but consider how you would apply a mid-workout adjustment. I find having a plan-B already in mind helps and can lead to a more productive workout vs playing it loose and having to adjust on the fly.
As such, I would suggest looking at the interval length. Consider splitting it in 1/2, 1/3, or 1/4 with a backpedal (about 10 seconds).
- Maybe 1/2’s for intervals around 5-6 mins.
- Maybe 1/3’s for intervals around 7-9 mins.
- Maybe 1/4’s for intervals around 10-15 mins.
Consider how and when you had trouble in the past. I find it best to apply a break just a bit before you really blow up, because it is easier to do the mini back pedal break, then jump in to smash the remainder. Threshold should be doable and not a black hole of suffering like some VO2 or Anaerobic sets can be.
As such, and based on your issues, I think you will benefit from more frequent breaks, so you can stay at full intensity and complete them as intended. As you improve, decrease the frequency of the breaks until you don’t need them for most Thresh workouts.
Good luck and report back 
Next Thresh workout is Darwin (10 minute intervals). Will report next Thursday/Friday
Curious to see what you do when you go to vacation for a week. How do you adjust?
You are evidently a CRAP person: chronic ramp anxiety personality.
This will be a good way to judge if you need to adjust your FTP. If you cannot complete this workout, your FTP is too high. Or said another way, your VO2max is differentially strong vs your FTP.
Your profile may be such that the average of VO2max being 120% of FTP does not apply. And you need to increase the spread of intensity between these workouts.
Eg if you reduce your current FTP so you can complete Darwin, then you may need to ride the VO2max workouts at 125% or maybe more.
I did Darwin last night, and it was tough. I have Lamarck next week, and Based on how Darwin went, I might just about be able to make it through Lamarck.
The ramp test overestimates FTP for me - so I find all the tough threshold and VO2max workouts to be on the border of not being doable.
actually just realized that next threshold is Palisade (today). Just played tennis, so I’ll probably attempt it after a nap and see how I hold up.
I always do cycling/swimming/running when on vacation, and I’m never sick/away for more than 5-7 days. If I for some reason would lose a substantial amount of fitness, I’d just lower my ftp a lot (10-20%) and increase gradually from there until the toughest workouts become barely manageable.
By now, I know what sweet spot, threshold and VO2max should feel like, and I trust this method far more than a ramp test or an estimate derived from 8-20 minutes max effort.
Just finished Palisade (which is very much a threshold workout). Interval 1 I was able to complete without back-pedaling, and at 100% intensity. Other intervals I had to backpedal for 10 sec during the 60-sec long (95% FTP) portions of the interval.
So - I was able to finish the workout at full intensity, with 2 back-pedals during each 9-minute threshold interval. I feel like a hero.
I spent close to an hour doing some core workouts prior to the ride, I think that’s the key.
@anirudh, that’s a great workout 
. Perfectly executed use of backpedals. You many want to work on getting your cadence a little higher, btw. I also did Palisade today and I must have been feeling good because I increased +1% for the last interval. That was my first intensity increase in an interval since I started TR.
Killer work! That’s the way to use adjustments
That is a total win in my book too. Well done.
Keep the BP’s in mind and see when you can do with less of them over time. That will help you get what you need from the real work intervals.
I’m excited for you as you do more of them. Happy training.
I did Lamarck this evening and was just about able to make it through. I would not have gotten through if it wasn’t for the 2 min rest intervals. Given this, can I really say my FTP is equal to the average of the 4 Lamarck intervals? Eg if I had to ride straight through, I might be able to make it for 30 mins. Definitely not 40.
Separately, my average heart rate for the last 10 min interval was 95% of max HR. This is pretty typical for me. My cardio system is my limiter, legs feel “fine” 
. What are others avg HR for the last Lamarck interval? Others have the same where cardio is your limiter?
My Lamarck from a few weeks ago.
- 164 bpm for the last 2 sets. Best guess on max HR is 187 bpm.
- 164 / 187 = 88%
The workout was very manageable despite being at the end of my SSBMV2. It (and Leconte before it) ended up being less nasty for me this season.
- Might be a better FTP estimate and knowing how to use the test best for my preferences?
- Additionally, I applied a 4/1, 3/1, 3/1 Work/Recovery week schedule for SSB1&2, which seems to have been a good choice for me.
- I suspect my actual FTP was a bit over the 250w from starting the workout. Maybe 2 to 5 w or just a bit higher?
I struggled with Leconte and Lamarck last season as the Ramp was new and still getting tuned. I know I had FTP too high at many points last season. And I think those hiccups lead to some training issues in the short and medium timeframe. This season is a much better story.
Limiters: Unless I am working the high end VO2 Max, my limiter this season seems to largely muscular endurance. Cardio is solid up the hard VO2 stuff.
I’ll be starting sustained power build the week after next. That’s a noticeable step-up in intensity from SSBLV2. Will be interesting to see how I deal with that.
Ramp Test: 280 FTP (#fakenews)
Started SSB1 after my XC season peak in September and 4 weeks of light unstructured riding. My FTP beginning Specialty was 298 (August 13, 2019). So I was expecting a drop in my FTP starting SSB and I was surprised it was only -6% (280).
Well I must have retained my fitness to perform the ramp test but not to do the workouts. In the first week of SSB1 I was unable to complete the weekend workouts (Reinstein & Glassy), failing after the first interval on both and not being able to even continue with a -5% reduction. I was smoked and my HR was very high!
Having learned my lesson from my original post of this thread, I started week 2 of SSB1 with a -5% reduction in my FTP. Just finished Ericsson today and it was tough but doable. My FTP feels correct now. If my fitness comes back quicker in the next 4 weeks I will gradually adjust the intensity of workouts up.
It’s odd because as I went through my Build and Specialty this past season the ramp test was always spot on. However, after coming off a month of detraining, like coming off of Traditional Base last year, the ramp test was about 5% too high for me.
What a great thread. I wish I had read this before embarking on SSB LV1 (I’ve just finished it).
It would have saved me a bit of angst and hassle and also would have avoided the need to post my own related query.
+1 from me - dropped my FTP by around 10% (outdoors compared to indoors) and its now at the perfect level for SS work on the trainer with TR
#notetoself - use the forum search facility!
I don’t race, and haven’t done structured training since June, just unstructured rides. I am going on a long vacation till end of November, and then begin SSB LV I. I have to see how I fare then…it’s going to be tough.
I was once in this world. I live in Chicago where the winters are endless and we go a long stretch with no races. I needed a goal to focus my training, so I started obsessing over my FTP. I treated the ramp test like a race and even tapered for it.
The good news is that I came in at 301, which put my power-to-weight ratio over 4.5. The bad news is that the subsequent workouts were way too hard, especially as I started to ramp up my training for triathlon season. I started consistently failing, dreading all bike workouts, and really not enjoying my training. In six weeks I was burned out. Once I let go of that magical number, I was much happier.
Now I’m training for an Ironman on the TR mid-volume plan and I’m very conservative with my FTP. For instance, I do the test in aero position, even if it costs me a few watts. Basically, I make sure that the hard workouts are difficult, but ultimately manageable. I like to finish thinking I could have done another set or two (even though I really wouldn’t want to). If I’m having trouble with the run workouts, I will set my FTP slightly lower. My aim is to be as consistent as possible over the 28 weeks of base-build-specialize, which means making sure no single workout or week wipes me out.