Try a workout that is considered an “opener” on the day before the ramp test. An example is Truuli. I was the same way with struggling with the test after a recovery week and felt much better during the test by doing the opener the day before.
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I like Truuli -1 as an opener. I think it really helps me come in without being soft from a full day of rest.
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Hey, hey, hey… this is an OVER FTP achieving “support group”, I don’t want to hear under achieving FTP test advice here 
.
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@MI-XC
Interesting thread. Thanks for sharing.
Anyway, I’m in a similar boat with my progression as someone new to cycling. You’re a little further ahead looking at your posts.
I went down the SPB LV route as It’s my weakness on the bike. It felt like being punched in the face, but I’m just pushing for as long as I can.
MV plans would destroy me due to a very physical job and a fairly active lifestyle outside of work.
Are you doing any outdoor rides on top of the MV plans?
I ask because I push a whole lot harder outdoors and that impacts my VO2 (Edit: VO2 and above) work indoors for days.
It’s also interesting that you’re used to digging deep from cross fit. While not a cross fit person, I still break fit young guys at work on a regular basis. 20+years of hard work teaches you to get on with the task at hand.
My first XC race resulted in a broken collar bone and some serious bruising at the 26 km mark. 74 km later I was across the line. It was a long day.
Is it possible that the shortened nature of the ramp test makes it easier for some to dig a little bit deeper?
Call me a sicko, but I really like the ramp test as a short workout on the bike.
I’m in Michigan so weather has limited my outdoor rides. I’m 99% indoors right now, getting out 1-2 per month on my fat bike for long slow rides. That is usually a substitute for the Sunday ride when I do it.
I think so, it’s a bit of “being comfortable being uncomfortable” and HTFU. I finished (40 more mins) my last XC race with a Grade 3 AC Separation and minor concussion (my video on YouTube) and still took 5th place. I think my grit and refusal to fail earns me an extra 1:00-1:30 at the end of the ramp test. Which is great, but inflates my FTP. Also, I seem to grind out that last minute or so effort (60-70 rpm) and I think that results in a false positive. There may need to be a rpm floor when doing the ramp test when you SHOULD just stop.
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What’s the general consensus on the best TR workouts to use to judge if your FTP is at the right level?
Lamarck is a good one.
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There probably isn’t a consensus and the variable of what type of training you have been doing may come into play. For example, if you’ve been doing 3 months of SS and move into a V02 Short Power Build plan, your FTP may immediately feel too high. Conversely, if you move to SPB it might feel correct. I’d say there is no “1” workout to determine if you FTP is correct based on your previous training/experience, but rather your performance over several types of workouts will give you an idea if your FTP is inflated. This will change plan to plan and rider to rider.
For me, any sustained long interval of SS or Threshold (my weakness) is going to feel horrible even if my FTP is accurate. While short punchy stuff is generally ok. This is a result of my MTB training and XCO racing.
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Agree. This is one of the limitations of the ramp test. Just grit things out for another 30-60 seconds and you can increase your FTP meaningfully. This is not the case with the 20 min test, where gritting things out for 30-60 seconds will not have as big an impact on FTP.
I think my FTP from the ramp test is a little too high for the same reason.
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And if Lamark still gives you an FTP that has you failing sustained vo2 (Edit: VO2 + sprints/anaerobic) efforts, what gives?
I’m pretty sure it’s just a weakness that can be trained out over time. ‘Push harder, more often’ was my training partners mantra. (He ended up hospitalised twice with rhabdomyolosis).
It would be good to get through a training block without burning out.
Is FTP the only metric we should be using for power based training?
The relationship between FTP and VO2Max power is different for everyone, so FTP isn’t the only metric. On the other hand, the relationship between them changes in response to training, too. I don’t have episode references but I think @chad has recommended being flexible on the power you target for VO2max intervals based on RPE and your recent experience with them.
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I had to look up RPE. Rate of perceived excersion.
It’s an interesting one as it would throw me all over the place depending on the day.
I’d love to listen to the podcast if somebody knows the episode number.
The common theme I’m seeing here is the ability to push through things until you go over the hour mark. Then things seem to implode really quickly.
More kms/miles in the legs needed?
PS. This hump seems to be around the 2 hr mark on outdoor rides for me
I’m trying to find exact podcasts, but for example in this blog post he writes
In comparison to VO2 max, your FTP generally falls between 78-85% pVO2 max, with pVO2 max falling around 118-128% FTP.
and
That’s what really matters — spending time training at high percentages of pVO2 max.
When you work at high oxygen uptakes, the training stimulus is incredibly strong and potentially really productive…
I think the other way I’ve seen it described is that your goal is accumulating time at high oxygen uptakes - so if the target is 120% of FTP for the interval but you’re at 115-118%, you’re getting the training stimulus. If you have trouble holding the target for the duration of the interval, and you end up having to backspin for the last 30 seconds, then holding something a few percentage points below the target (but for the whole duration) is preferable. Even a declining power, like starting at 118% and declining to 114% over the course of the interval, is better than switching to recovery (backspinning or low power, etc.) earlier.
Another metric that you may need to consider is repeatability of hard efforts… but if you’re hitting a wall at 2 hours of riding outside, the main culprits I can think of are
- Going out too hard
- Dehydrating
- Bonking, running out of fuel
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I was really pumped and ready to nail the last Ramp test I did. When it was finished I had an improvement of 6.5%. I know from reading other post and from the TR podcast, a 2-3% is more the normal improvement. After two weeks of doing workouts I started to struggle to hold the top end power of the workouts at the end. I decided to lower my FTP 3% and continue from there. The workouts were still killer but I was doing better at finishing them. It was still a struggle but I feel the struggle was more what it should have been instead of cadance dropping too low where I could not turn over the pedals.
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Thanks for the reply - you are probably right, although I don’t think any damage has been done as I have reverted to 330 or thereabouts for almost every workout anyway!
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My experience exactly!
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Oh dear god anything but that… actually edit - there’s many worse than that 
@Rosscopeco has no issues with Lamark but I look at Lamark as being hell - but then I’d rather do these ones
Morgan
Gawler+1
Okay maybe not that last one.
Very thankful for this thread though. I think I’m gonna do one more ramp test & then start skipping them and just adjust based on feel/CP estimate/outdoor
Not a sprinter but a “pursuiter-type” will overtest. Having a high anaerobic capacity (vo2max) in relation to FTP will skew the results upwards. A real “time trial type” will (very high FTP in relation with vo2max) will underperform on te ramp test.
Generally FTP is about 72 to 79% of the 1 minute max on a ramp test. TrainerRoad takes 75% which works for a lot of people but not everyone.
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Probably. I mean, it’s supposed to be a test to failure, so technically that shouldn’t be the case. But I could see how—given that TR developed the test to be accurate for most people—grit might come in after all (as in, if everyone was as gritty as you, they’d have to adjust the formula). Then again, if you do the 8 minute test, you’re doing long vo2max intervals and presumably grit matters in those, too.
Precisely my boat.