FTP increase during race vs. ramp test

Hello guys…

Im abit torn on what to do. The week before last, i had a full recovery week - and started last week with a RAMP test ofc. The score was a increase to 272watt - where the ramp test before showed a FTP decrease to 260 - why I trained the zones based on that. I also need to add, and I in the build did rapha festive, only outside - where the weather was brutal - so there could be some fatique.

My question is however - this weekend i did a race on zwift - and in that race i did 30mins of 302 watts - and zwift said that my FTP was 287.

So - what should i try to train after ? The ramp test result, or the FTP i got from racing because of the higher output?

Thanks

Split the difference, set it at 280 and see how you get on?

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While a race might tell you what you can do, its not a bad idea to think to yourself is that where I am at most days? Was I able to go harder than usual because it was a race. This is why I think people need to think twice about the Zwift FTP update numbers. Admittedly if you’ve just produced 120TSS for 40 minutes or something daft then yes it might be worth updating! :rofl::rofl:

Thanks - but yea - i mean - ofcouse the race is giving me some adrenalin - regardless of the race i still produced 302watts for 30 minutes, which indicates my FTP is higher tho? - But yea, i have no idea if the training is sustrainable for me, in those zones.

Ask yourself if you could have put out 302 for around an hour? :thinking: If so then your FTP could go up or you could always re-test as the ramp is not too taxing and see what numbers you get and apply that.
I’d be really cautious or approach with curiosity any FTP numbers that aren’t generated on the same platform that you train on. YMMV though if you’re going to let maybe ego lead the way…
Not meant as a challenge.

Bump it up manually and see how you fair.

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There might have been a bit of aerobic energy in the Zwift test and not all diesel power but over 30mins it’ll be close to anaerobic. Like said above split the difference and see how you get on and well done :clap:

Verify the zwift “FTP” with Lamarck or the Kolie Moore Protocol?

I did the Baird+6 which was schdueled - and took it at +3% (split the difference) and it felt pretty good. So I guess, atleast my FTP is higher than the 272 which the ramp test showed, and more towards the 287 zwift estimated from the 20m output

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My issue with the way Zwift calculates FTP is that the ‘real’ 20 min test has a certain protocol (warming, max 5 min clearing effort, then 20min full blast, FTP is approx 95% of 20min power) but zwift just takes 95% of any 20min effort. Even as a steady power / TT type rider, I find that Zwift way over estimates my FTP based on those efforts. There’s no way I could hold 40+min at those powers.

I do a warmup for 10 mile Zwift TTs and try to blast out a hard 20min and then ignore what Zwift says. I look at eFTP / power models and fine tune based on some hard efforts in that range to estimate FTP. Typically mine hovers around 92% of a standalone 20min effort.

Yea but i mean - in that race tho - i did the 302 watts for abit over 30 minutes. So i would think though, that my FTP is higher than the 272 ramp test showed me. And Baird+6 felt fine just now, with increase of 8watt to ftp

I didn’t specifically comment on your 30min effort. Just that the way Zwift calculates ‘FTP’ outside of their 20min FTP test workout does not follow the protocol of a 20min test and I believe over-estimates FTPs. I don’t think that Zwift takes into account that your effort was actually 30min when making the calculation. You need to look at power modeling from GoldenCheetah, TrainingPeaks, intervals.icu or something like a Monod power duration curve calculator if you want the full 30min effort to be included in the FTP estimate. The downside to the modeling approaches is you need to ‘feed the curve’ with maximal efforts across a couple of different durations.

I think you could hypothetically do 302 for 50-60min and Zwift would still give you the FTP estimate of 0.95*302 when in reality given the length of effort 302 would probably be a good FTP estimate.

I think you may be right. I’ve never had the “new FTP detected” in zwift, put then I always update in line with what I’m training with on TrainerRoad. The races I do tend to be longer than the 30 minute effort mentioned by Mbonde, but interestingly my set “FTP” is pretty much bang on 95% of my best 20 min from my last couple of races, so probably why it’s never triggered in zwift :man_shrugging:

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I mostly get them when doing 10 mile Zwift TTs, which I use for ~20min efforts to feed my power curve / model. Warm up, a couple of short efforts to warm up the legs but not enough to drain your anaerobic reserves, then full blast for 20min!

The FTPs I get recommended are not realistic which I why I would advise people against taking Zwift FTP estimates from races or free rides at face value.

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