Failed FTP test

Ouch

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Sorry, I think I missed something. That’s how I’ve seen that test described. I’ve also seen the Friel 30 min version and a bunch of other variations. But none of them have been ā€œdo a short warmup, hammer out 20 minutes, doneā€ which is what the OP seems to have done.

Obviously, the shorter 8 min and ramp tests exist as well, but again, they all have defined warm-ups and steps to follow. At least any that I’ve seen. Maybe people closer to the science have seen differently?

Probably a minor point, but from his prior comments related to the 20-minute test, Dr. Coggan says that is really Hunter Allen’s test despite it being in the book with both of them as authors.

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Ah, that makes sense. Too bad - it listed as ā€œCoggan’s testā€ all over the internet. And the internet never lies, right?

Anyway, my main point was the OP likely ā€œfailedā€ the test from the outset by not following any of the protocols (at least none that I’ve seen).

And if Hunter Allen is on the forum, apologies for that inaccuracy.

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Yeah, that and other misattributions have been mentioned by The_Cog. :stuck_out_tongue:

I totally appreciate you posting what you did, because the improper application of the full test protocol is more common than it should be. Too many people deliberately skip or are unaware of the earlier steps and don’t realize the negative impact they are giving to any results they may get.

So a great thing to bring up, and that’s why I hesitated to make that minor distinction.

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Failed a 20min all-out effort should have been a better title for my topic ;-). Maybe the real focus was not to get my FTP correct in that way (because for FTP a 40min test is better IMO). As I said, outside I would always do a Kolie Moore kind of style test (40min). But maybe if you do the 20min test as stated above (with some pre shorter hard efforts) you would get the same results as in a 40min test (95% of that 20min).

I hope not. I just had 10 days vacations and then two weeks of some unstructured riding and a zwift race now and then…CTL dropped from 95 to 75.

I’ve always wondered about the 20min test, if the 5min effort is to reduce anaerobic contribution isn’t the 10min rest after it plenty of time to recharge the anaerobic tank? So better description would be to pre-fatigue the fast twitch fibers?

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From Hunter Allen:

  1. Ride 5 minutes all out. Punch it and hold it! Start at a high pace, but not so high that you die at the end. You should have a little energy held in reserve to kick it toward the finish line in the last minute.

The goal of this first part of the effort is twofold: first, to open up the legs for the rest of the test, and second, to measure your ability to produce watts in the VO2max power zone. This initial 5-minute effort also helps to dispense the ā€œfreshnessā€ that always exists at the beginning of a ride; your next effort will produce power that is more likely to be truly representative of your FTP.

  1. Ride 10 minutes easy at endurance pace.

  2. 20-minute time trial.

It’s not the only way to warmup before a 20-min TT effort to estimate your FTP.

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Just a little update…

Because I was not happy with my test I wanted to do an all cat mass start zwift race trying to hold on as long as possible (FRR). I could hang on for 22min in the first group, averaging 261W (NP 269W). I ended the race with 241w (252w NP) for more then an hour.
This gives me the motivation that my 20min was just not a good day…

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I also prefer the Kolie Moore baseline test. Did it this morning and was within 3% of my TR aiFTP number (on the low side, which feels right to me.) But here’s the kicker: less than two hours later had my annual physical with a blood draw. As soon as the results came back the nurse called my cell and asked if I was feeling all right. My glucose came back at 49 mg/dl (reference range is 70-100.) So thinking I wasn’t fueled or didn’t eat enough afterward – or both…

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I would be hesitant about necessarily connecting blood sugar level with energy availability in the muscle. You should have enough glycogen in the muscles do a 20min effort. My eldest son is T1 diabetic and if his blood sugar dips below 3.9mmol/l then he is ā€œlowā€ and needs some sugar urgently. He might feel a bit ropey, and it is very individual admittedly, but once his blood sugar is back above 4, he’s generally fine for however many hours of biking as he would be normally. Or if he’s fatigued from previous days or already having ridden a few hours (say it’s mid-ride), he’s fatigued. It’s strangely (for him at least) almost independent of blood sugar.

Might already have been said but a few weeks of training doing intervals at tempo and I’d say you can’t lose. If it is tempo it will be doing you good, if what you thought was tempo was actually nearer to sweet spot then again it’s just a bit more intense and still good training.

You can train effectively without having to do a 20min test or getting an estimate of FTP from such a test.

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Hey there!

I wanted to hop in and echo what others have been saying in this thread – looks like you had a bit of time off, which can certainly make it harder to smash out PR power on a 20min test.

Luckily, it doesn’t sound like your break was too long, so you should be finding your legs again soon! It seems like your recent Zwift race is a good indication of that. :slight_smile:

When it comes to indoor vs. outdoor riding, I’m curious to know more about your setup. Do you have a big/powerful fan in a cool room? Ensuring your body temperature stays under control is huge when it comes to successfully training indoors, and I was wondering if that was perhaps the reason you see lower power numbers on the trainer compared to outside.

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Thx. I think my setup is ok, have a big fan in front and a smaller one beside me. It was pretty warm that day but does it also matter during a shorter test, 20min? I did not have the feeling of overheating but maybe that played a role. I use a Tacx Neo 2T. And always feel like indoor riding stresses my muscles more than outside. certainly when going around and above FTP…Maybe I am not good at overcoming the inertia of the virtual flywheel…

Indoor it’s not the size of the fan it’s the air velocity. If you want to the power to be closer to outdoor you need something like a vacmaster fan.

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Hi there,

There are lots of factors effecting your FTP testing. My first question would be, are you testing in the same environment as 3 months ago? Have you been training since then? And the most important one is what was your fatique and form status? Are you monitoring them before you go into a gun fight with a knife? :slight_smile:

The above 20-minute protocols are all correct. The reason of 5 minutes all out interval is to take a bit of freshness from your legs so that 20-minute test can give you a better result.

a humble suggestion would be, instead of hitting your target watts why don’t you go with negative split and hit your target FTP.

Proper cooling will definitely make a difference, even for just 20 minutes! As @hubba said, something like a Vacmaster fan (or any kind of similar industrial fan) does a super great job at keeping you cooled off.

When it comes to riding on the trainer itself, have you tried changing up the gearing combination you’re using? While we generally advise keeping your chain in the middle of the cassette and in the small chainring (which typically works best for most smart trainers), that gearing combo might not give you the inertia you’re looking for. If you try riding the trainer in the big ring up front and in one of the harder cogs in the back, that should get the flywheel spinning up faster, giving you more inertia as though you were on a flat road instead of a climb.

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