Guys, just use HR!
(thought Iād take over the trolling duties for a secā¦back to you at the studio, Jim)
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True. I think some say 2x 20 minutes works well.
Iām not totally convinced with the ramp test. It seemed to give me a slightly too high estimate.
But I am sticking with it because I seem to be able to do all the workouts at target watts except the longer (3 -4 minute) Supra threshold efforts.
Seeing as iām more of a diesel, that is to be expected.
I guess it might be worth trying the different tests for FTP , compare the results ,and choose which you think most apt.
I probably wonāt do that, as I do not particularly enjoy the FTP Test!
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Ohs another ramp test FTP thread 
Yes, Ramp Test can prodive you with good FTP number or more of a crappy one. If you can hold your FTP from Ramp test for 25 min, this is not your FTP and your problem is not your TTE but overestimated FTP. Does this matter? If you are doing threshold workouts that have 8-10 min long intervals you will be fatigued as hell but you will complete them. If you want to do proper threshold workouts like 3x20 or even 4x15 you will probably fail. The solution? Set your FTP properly but then you will not have this magical numer you like so muchā¦but yor workouts will improve, your recovery will improve and suddenly everything will become better and easier. ā
Of course you can not care about this, doing workouts with overestimated FTP and still be happy cyclist that has a problem with every over-unders or simple workouts like Lamarck because you have your number from a test, that is flawed in many was.
And to answer an original question - 60 min@100% FTP this is my result. Recent test have my FTP higher but TTE was shorter and I went for lower FTP that was modeled by WKO - because I would rather do 80 min TiZ during Threshold workouts for more benefits than hold to my higher number only to crash and burn in a long term.
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Sorry, Iām confused or maybe your post is missing something. You had 99% workout completion and increasing FTPā¦and that made you think something was wrong?
Like I said, the ramp test gives me a great number to base my workouts on. And Iāve had consistent progress. It doesnāt make sense to change things if theyāre working. Who thinks, Iām getting better, Iām not burnt out, I enjoy my training, and Iām getting faster. Better change everything up.
And, to be honest, it doesnāt totally surprise me I held my FTP for that long. I am finishing up Short Power Build and CX Specialty. I donāt do long efforts like that very often. Hence why itās a goal this year.
I honestly had no intention for it to turn into this. Should we bring up rim brake vs disc to bring on full popcorn snacking mode? I thought I was asking a simple enough question, was just curious to hear other peopleās numbers and something for me to improve. But then we get this thread.
I disagree. I think itās more of a case that my focus right now (CX) means I donāt do efforts that long. I have no problems completing workouts at my current FTP. I just did 3x12 at 95% and extended the last one to 16 minutes because I felt like it was too easy. Does that mean I think I can hold my FTP for an hour? Hell no. Not right now. Iām not training to.
Nope, wrong again. I have no problem with over-unders. Lots of assuming.
Like I said, Iāve improved in every way that Iāve been training. My entire power-duration curve has improved. Iāve taken KOMs, Iām enjoying my training and my fun rides.
Sounds like youāre more worried about my āmagical numberā than I am. Itās doing great for my training, but apparently upsets you for some reason.
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Itās covered a few posts up where I asked for clarification. Chidlow was digging themselves in to a hole which is what set off warning signs. But the other warning signs, such as failed workouts, werenāt there since their anaerobic contribution was good enough to see them through the workouts.
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Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. Improving FTP and 99% compliance sounded amazing.
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thatās what I thought too
For what its worth the coaches Iāve talked to, listened to, and read, would rather see their athletes training with a conservative FTP. What you do with that information is up to you of course. Personally I think your FTP is over-estimated a bit, and that anyone with a properly set FTP should be capable of holding it for at least 35 minutes.
And a second for what its worth, I got faster across the PDC by doing less intensity than TR plans. Training comes down to three things: eat, train, recover. You can actually get faster doing minimum effective doses of training. It takes experimentation, there is no one size fits all solution.
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So what youāre saying is, I should do an hour record attempt at FTP. Joking aside, thatās good input. One of the reason I wanted to increase TTE was to see if my hour power could get close to FTP. Iāve never trained for long efforts. I do think I could hit 30 minutes at FTP right now if I tried. And seeing as my season is officially done after breaking my thumb, now may be a good time to test some different things out.
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Yes, hold FTP for 35-70 minutes when training with a properly set FTP. Longer efforts require more muscular endurance, training, and mental commitment.
And then immediately follow with an hour record attempt
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Honestly I do not care about your FTP or training at all. What I am concerned is the fact many people have very simialr problems when using TR and do not want to accept simple solution that is hampering their training in a long term. If your number works for you and you are happy with your training - great for you, especially id you are focused on shor power and you do not care about sustained efforts.
If you could 3x12@95% good for you, you have probably done this at your proper FTP and it felt like FTP should feel. The whole discussion was about TTE and with overestimated FTP (in general) this is the same as discussion how long is TTE@VO2 max
Sorry for using you as an example but your goal of 60 min TTE is directly correlated to properly assessing FTP as working even little about above causes significant decrease of TTE (from definition of FTP).
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FTP 299W
Duration at 299W: 37:30
1-Hour Power/FTP: 278/299= 93%
Currently in a rest week and I suspect my FTP will go up a little- maybe 305.
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Youāre the one that demands precision in terms. FTP isnāt CP60.
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FTP 398W
Power duration for 398W: 26:30
1-hour power/FTP: 370/398 = 93%
Iāve held 385w (97%) for 52:30, but it was during a Zwift race that ended at that pointā¦so didnāt much have a reason to go harder for longer. Probably couldāve stretched it out another 7.5 minutes.
I had a breakthrough in holding close to FTP for longer this year and I attribute it to my coach focusing on longer tempo intervals (20-40min) during the offseason, which then pushed up into SS power range, then got longer and longer. We started out at 3x20 @330w say, and by spring/summer it was more like 3x30 @375, then 3x40 @375, so on and so forth.
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Iām near the end of a block. Which now that I think about it, may be why those efforts arenāt too bad. Like I said, I donāt have any real plans right now being hurt so maybe I can experiment with different testing protocols. I never really thought about how the ramp test would work for me doing nothing but short efforts.
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This conversation is extremely similar to the sweet spot progression thread. Iād say thereās a general feeling across TR users that we need longer sweetspot/threshold intervals and that the ramp test is artificially inflating FTP.
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Iāve actually noticed that my ramp test and 20min test results are reasonably close. My last 20min test was in late July (431w = 409w FTP), and last ramp test in mid-Sept was 398w following a 2wk break of wedding/honeymooning and no training.
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Where did I say that it was?
You could ONLY manage 409 wattsā¦ All kidding aside, thatās world class!
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