Doing all 3 FTP tests to get a ‘true average’

run this through xert and see what it says

On the day I did Farquhar, Xert pinned me at 25w below what my TR ramp test result was four days prior where I had a breakthrough effort, which is interesting, because it said my FTP was 5w lower than what I just averaged for an hour.

Having a “more accurate” ftp isn’t going to change the fact that you, like me, struggle with vo2max work.

Just keep it simple. Use the ramp test to set your training zones. When doing vo2max work, do what I do and just dial down the intensity.

Why is that ok? Because the first goal of vo2max work is to use enough power to force your body to demand a lot of oxygen (90+% of your max aerobic capacity).

Coach Chad’s notes say this as well, with different words:

Important: Try to settle on a demanding but repeatable power output such that you can finish as many intervals as possible. The goal is to accumulate a productive level of stress at a high level of intensity while avoiding the need to frequently quit intervals early.

Focus on repeatability before increasing power. For 3-min intervals at 120% ftp, during the workout you can dial intensity down to 95% or 90% or even 88%.

The first goal is repeatedly stressing your aerobic system, using just enough power above ftp to get your body to demand a lot of oxygen and force you to breath deeply to supply it. If you had a mask measuring oxygen consumption, your goal is to spend a lot of time above 90% max aerobic capacity. This really isn’t about HTFU and do the exact prescribed power (again, look at workout notes).

Sweet spot and threshold work are about muscular and strength endurance, where you really do want to use power and duration as the targets.

Hope that helps.


Interesting thread. On a recovery week, thinking of doing a 20’ effort this weekend ahead of the Ramp test next Tuesday.

No need to do different type of FTP tests all the time. Just stick to 1 test, use it as a benchmark to test your progress and learn if any personal adjustments are needed to get to an FTP number that produces SS and Threshold efforts at the right intensity.

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Doing different FTP tests won’t give people the answer their looking for but it will lead to more confusion.

For the sake of argument.

I do both the ramp test and Kolie Moore baseline test.

One is to test my FTP and have TTE. The other is so I can get a handle on how my VO2max training is going. I hate 5 minute tests with a passion

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Totally with you here. The point is to get a reasonably accurate training baseline, not to find the One True Number. Obsessing over the perfect test protocol just seems like an odd obsession for 99% of athletes doing structured training.

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I feel like this obsession with more and “better” tests must be a human thing. Just look at all those poor schoolchildren. They have to do so many standardized tests, they have hardly time to actually learn some stuff!

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Completely agree, which is why I’ll do the Ramp test on Tuesday like planned, and use that as my TR FTP.

I’m just curious as to what I can do for a 20 minute effort. Last Sunday, I tried to do a Tired20 but ran out of road. Also, as a tester it’s nice to compare outdoor 20 minute efforts even if the outcome doesn’t affect my FTP.

Have my first “baseline” scheduled next week, but was debating a similar approach. How do you schedule the two workouts? Same day, consecutive days, day in between?

Day of easy spinning between the two. Also do the kolie test first, the ramp test second.

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The ramp test is flawed for certain types of riders. If you have a larger anaerobic contribution you’ll get too high of an FTP. This is a serious problem for people who are suffering even at sweet spot.

I just did the kolie moore baseline test for the first time. I like it a lot better than the 20 minute test even though it’s longer. Starting at a baseline power and then ramping up until you die works a lot better for me than trying to stay above threshold for a full 20 minutes.

BTW, WKO tells me that my anaerobic contribution, even on the 20 minute test, is 6% rather than the typical 5%.

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My approach is to ride up a big hill as hard as I can for an hour… that’s my ftp


Most riders don’t have enough TTE to do a full hour. The frequent recommendation to ‘just do an hour’ is not helpful for setting FTP for most riders.


I wish we had hills that were consistently long as an hour to get a FTP that way :+1:


Maybe…maybe not…

I have done 20min, I have done ramp. I have done 3 ramps in a single day across different kit in different environments. I have done all out 1hr/40km TT. I have done all out 20km TT.

The only surprising finding was that the results were NOT wildly different to whatever the comparative FTP was. A few watts here, a few watts there, or maybe even the same.

I really over thought this, so you didn’t have to :yum:


God some of you get hung up with ftp, and what the number is. Do whatever test you prefer, adjust as required, move on. I pretty much know at any given time what mine is without testing. Sometimes i will do a test to validate that, but only every few months at most. But i can’t even remember how many i’ve done over the years. WKO, xert & modelling is normally pretty close too.

My opinion is that if you’re experienced enough to pace properly, do a 20min, otherwise ramp test and adjust.


You wonder why TR doesn’t model the FTP.

I finally got on board with going with the WKO modeled FTP. It’s really close - maybe a few watts low but probably more realistic since it estimates anaerobic/aerobic contribution.

I’d say the reason is because its aimed at indoor, and there seem to be a number of people on TR who ride almost exclusively indoors. Hard to get a real FTP model without significant outdoor data.