Is there any update when TR will start accounting for unstructured rides in AT?
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“… more than a month out…”
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Wasn’t that post related to non cycling workouts to show in TR, not analysis of unstructured workouts
Crap, i misread it… doh!
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Only reason I pointed it out was that it allows me to hold onto the dream the WL2.0 will be here soon
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I appreciate the check. Sorry for the mistake.
I used to interpret “how many hours a week do you train” as how much total time in the saddle. Now I interpret it as how much structured interval training do yo do
General thoughts on the use of unstructured, outside rides (e.g., solo, group, race, whatever):
- It seems like the zones that would be “easy” to figure out are endurance, VO2max, anaerobic, and sprint.
- The lower end of the spectrum likely correlates pretty closely to heart rate and average power over longer rides of 90+ minutes.
- The upper end of the spectrum lends itself to shorter efforts which likely correlates with group rides where you’ll see three minutes hard up a short climb, launching a 30-second attack on friends, or trying to be the first one back to the parking lot in an all out 10-second effort.
- This leaves the more challenging zones of tempo, sweet spot, and threshold.
- On the surface, tempo should be pretty easy for a hard ride, but the sustainability of power when factoring in descents comes into question since you should be able to hold tempo for a longer time than most will do outside.
- More than likely, this challenge is magnified with sweet spot and threshold. Using Garrowby -1 as an example since I just did it, I don’t think I have anywhere near me in which I could perform 5x3 minute intervals with 30-second rest intervals.
Considering all the above, would it be better for adaptive training to only consider endurance, VO2max, anaerobic, and sprint for progression levels when examining outdoor rides? Another idea might be to instead prompt a user to test for a progression level based on outside data. For example, a cyclist may hit a new peak power and have several other efforts that are close to the new peak power so adaptive training recommends testing for a new VO2max/anaerobic/sprint workout based on the new PR. In this case, it may prompt for a default 45 minute workout that’s a higher than the typically recommended jump such as a stretch workout (e.g., you have a 4.1 VO2max but suggests a 5.3 Mount Foraker -2). Under a prompt scenario, you aren’t being “given” a new progression level, but adaptive training is recommending you stretch your limits based on outside data which accelerates your training progression and likely leads to positive developments in sweet spot and threshold zones.
“Structured training” doesn’t really mean anything though. It’s just a name for work on the bike that you think you’ve organised in some arbitrary way.
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I’ve just got a power meter for the chilled adventure rig so for all my endurance rides outside I’m linking to things like Petit.
I know it will be taken into account for changes to my plan in the future but at this moment in time with outside TR sessions not being analysed by AT or PL is it worth the linking or just go ride and keep the average in zones 2or 3.
To try and adapt, or even limit, outside rides so they better comply with TR’s structure is pretty crazy in my mind. Should be the other way around.
I cycle because I enjoy riding my bike - outside! Indoor training is only done to further that aim.
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This seems like an odd place to bring that nonsense (and even odder to get 2 likes for it). TR training plans and workouts are structured and I hope you can see that.
The alternative to “structure” is just riding as hard and far as you feel like whenever you feel like. This kind of riding is often enjoyable but it sure makes it a lot harder to progressively increase the load over time. You might have an awareness of how many total minutes you got in each zone but 30 x 1:00 z4 efforts is a LOT less load than 1 x 30:00 z4 and if you’re just drifting from one zone to the next as you feel like it, it’s not going to be easy to track what you’re doing much less to truly do “a little bit more” next time.
I think “If you can’t do structured training, what benefit would you get from AT?” is a pretty valid question. The point of AT is to take what you did last time and ramp it up a bit next time. If you’re not producing well tracked, well defined efforts such as “(x minutes at x watts) x times”, then what benefit do you expect to get from AT?
Maybe they could write an algorithm that combs through every second of your ride and note that you got the following ridiculous results from your ride:
5:43 at z4
13:21 at z1
8:37 at z4
5:07 at z1 etc
So this new and improved AT is going to say this time, do 7:43 at z4 and then only 11:21 at z1 and then 10:37 at z4, etc.
The first ride is going to be easy. Just do what you feel like. But the 2nd ride (to get use out of AT) is going to be “do what we say when we say”. So why not just start with “do what we say when we say” because ANY of the TR workouts (which are structured (aka "not-ridiculous)) are going to produce better results than just messing around. And again, even if you just mess around on ride 1, you still have to follow instructions to get a benefit from AT on every subsequent ride.
You can ride any way you want. Go nuts! Have a great time. But how is AT going to be relevant to you if you are just doing what you want? I mean logistically.
Are you just wanting AT to tell you how good you are? Like getting a gold star for doing the homework? Because it’s intended as a tool to tell you how hard to ride. That’s its function in life.
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Lol. Shoot. I was wondering why not a single person agreed with me that it was disappointing to hear that unstructured rides was more than a month out. Now I know why. 
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Yeah, hard flub on my part 
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I posted this on another thread.
I’m loosely following a plan because I do most of my riding outside. What I do ( and don’t know if it’s correct) is find a workout which is as close as I can to the outside ride using a mixture of intensity, kJ’s, Time and TSS trying to match the energy system I’ve been stressing on the ride I then associate that workout with the the ride. If it’s a long ride with lots of coasting which I can’t match I pick the best hour or 1 1/2 hrs or whatever and just do the same with that section. ie if I do some hills or efforts at threshold during a long endurance ride I’ll pick that bit and use that. I’d be interested to see if I’m wasting my time however.
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This seems reasonable. I was going to make a new thread to ask this but got shy and figure this is basically what’s being discussed here: what are folks’ best practices to keep AT reasonably on track when mixing in unstructured outside rides, especially without power data? I am hitting the mtb trails a lot lately, no pm, very challenging terrain. Estimated TSS from heart rate regularly has me at or beyond equivalent time for prescribed workouts. The terrain around me does not allow me to do outside workouts. I have tried, it’s just not compatible.
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Do the free ride workouts do anything to AT. I use them from time to time when I don’t feel like doing structure.
- No, not at this time. There is no associated Workout/Progression Level for the Free Rides. They are simply a workout with duration but no power data or targets, so there is nothing for them to drive AT.