What is latest on outside rides/races being included in PLs? (Unstructured)

Any news on this topic recently. This feature has been pre-announced for about a year now, but still seems not to have been implemented. I been training for a 24hr TT and a 12 hr TT 3 weeks apart, (loads of long outside rides) and I had to laugh when my Endurance PL dropped from 5.6 to 1.9 for no activity during th erecovery phase between them. :slight_smile: (PS I have not been listening to the podcasts recently. Something is missing from them for me.)

Anyway is there any news on outside rides and PLs? I know outside rides are (apparently) picked in in the AI FPT detection, (Is this correct) but not in the PLs.


I think you mean the UNSTRUCTURED outside rides?

If I’m right, structured outside rides (ie. pick a TR ride, push to a bike computer and complete that) should be taken into account considering the PLs.

Yes, title corrected: but I do not find the phrase “unstructured” useful. My outside rides, (not TR Workouts ridden outside) have structure - (they are not deserately hanging onto a group) but they are not TR workouts.

TR have been talking about this feature for months and months…


Thanks @mcneese.chad Somewhat frsutrating… Ho hum… thanks for update.


I would have guessed 9 months ago…time flies.

I bet it’s turning out to be like making a robot who can get a beer from the fridge, open it, and bring it to you on the couch. Seems so easy yet it’s damn near impossible. Actually, it is impossible at the moment. Anyway, it’s like this.


I’ve just come back to TR to give it another go as I decide what I’m going to use to train with next year. I’m surprised that they haven’t cracked this yet, although I suspect that they’ve probably made things harder for themselves with the Progression Levels.

Personally, I’d much rather a training app tell me that after a big weekend ride that I need a bit more recovery and maybe move my Tuesday VO2 workout to later in the week than bump my Progression Level up by 0.7. There are now several other apps out there that give you this information, all of them quite a bit cheaper than TR. I’d really like to see them get this working to make a judgement on whether it would help with my training, at the moment sadly I’m coming to the conclusion that as the plans don’t really work for me then I’ll probably use something else for next year. Shame really as I think they have a fantastic calender and the app works very well, but for someone who essentially uses an app as a guiderail for their training the price point is a bit too high without the outdoor rides being used fully.


sure, but in my experience the Garmin recovery time isn’t really that helpful. today I got a suggested recovery time of 50-something hours, definitely would overlap with my next workout on Tuesday. This has happened to me before and I’ve nailed workouts even when supposedly needing to recover longer. I’ve grown skeptical of various attempts at AI/machine learning, folks should be in tune with how they’re feeling and not trust some algorithm to either deter them from working out when someone feels like they can or make someone go through with a workout when they feel like garbage going into it.

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Prices of all the systems have really jumped up.

Very few are now any cheaper than TR. And most don’t have as useful and easy an interface or any actual trainer control/workout player.

My trial for JOIN is coming to an end, its $78/year. Simple, easy to use app. Workouts similar to what my coach has been giving me. I’m impressed. I’m in agreement with @Chop_Stick


That’s super curious. I’m sure when I last looked at Join it had jumped up in price. Obviously not.

Part of the point still stands though. It’s not got an Android workout player nor a complete calendar.

Join definitely has some cool features though.

Plans built and adapt for people that enjoy riding their bike? Outside workout analysis that feeds the adaptation engine? Rearranging based on what you actually do when life interferes or you have more time? $78/year? It’s in a class by itself, in my humble opinion.


When I look it up it’s €89 which makes it something like $98USD?

I think it must have shown local currency at some stage.

My point is not to denigrate Join. It’s excellent for what it is. I’m just saying it’s very hard to gauge value in the training app market and some of the goalposts are/have moved.

That’s what I’m seeing

:man_shrugging: I’m just going off Google. I don’t follow what the USD is up to.

It was really hard to not cancel my $99/year grandfather rate a couple weeks back and no way I’d pay full price right now, but I decided to give it one more year to see if anything happens with outside workouts. Chad’s message was a stark reminder of what a fool’s bet that may turn out to be :sweat_smile:

Part of the playing the SAAS game is you have to keep up if you want to keep that revenue coming in. VO2max approach in TR is totally out of date, outdoor work seems better integrated in some other platforms… AI FTP doesn’t tell me anything I don’t already know after years of training experience and generally just feeds me an anaerobically inflated number.

I’m giving it one more year out of convenience vs saving $20-$40 to deal with a new app that will also definitely raise rates, but I don’t know how they will make this pricing work in the market long term without some major innovation soon. The fact that the android apps are a hot mess in load time is also going to really get old this winter.


Yeah, I don’t know why it’s doing the weird under conversion, but my Annual was $78 USD, like what WW showed.

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My understanding of the Garmin metric is that ~50 hours is the time to fully recover, not the time until you can do another hard workout. You’re ready for another hard workout once recovery time is <24 hours. Which would be spot on for your Tuesday workout.

So roughly speaking - recovery time of 0-24 hours = you’re good to go again as soon as you want. 24-48 hours = don’t do anything hard again today but can train normally tomorrow. 48-72 hours = you need an easy/recovery day tomorrow. 72+ hours = you need 2 easy/recovery days.

They could do a better job of explaining this! I take it with a pinch of salt anyway but given that using it as above generally aligns with my personal experience I use it as a good guide. Though also ignore it when necessary e.g. If doing a stage race or a training camp.


what did he say?

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@mcneese.chad posted further up - it has been 2.5 years since first mention of this :sweat_smile:

I knew we were waiting a long time - didn’t know it was that long!