Dietary Changes, Restricting Processed Carbs, Weight Management, and Sugar/Fueling in Cycling?

[finncox23]

I appreciate everyone’s patience up front with the length of this post, and I appreciate any input. Also, I know I am inviting a lot of commentary, but this is more directed to people who are perhaps in a similar dietary situation, rather than those who are looking to argue some of the positions/points/philosophies that might be implicated by my post.

So, with that background, as looked over the horizon at 40 years old late last year, along with some slightly concerning bloodwork numbers, I decided to shake up my diet a bit. This was also informed by exposure to a number of podcasts, books, and other media on the topic of metabolic dysfunction, insulin resistance, chronic inflammation due to the foregoing, family history, and other topics touching on diet, metabolic health, and the impact of processed carbohydrates, sugar, and other processed foods on long-term health. Long story short, on 5-6 days a week, I basically cut almost all added sugars and highly processed carbohydrates (white rice, pasta, flour, breads, etc.), and started eating almost exclusively whole foods, consisting of the following – fruits, vegetables, chicken, eggs, quality red meats, healthy fats (avocados, nuts, seeds, etc.), olive oil, whole milk Greek yogurt. I also started limiting alcohol well below my usual intake (I love a good glass of wine or beer…or several). Yes, I had a day or two a week where I strayed from this (think weekends), but it was vast improvement in terms of consistency from what I was doing before. Also, I introduced intermittent fasting, trying not to eat on any week day after around 8:00 p.m., or before the next morning (aside from coffee) at 11:00 a.m.

Obviously, following this basic outline greatly reduced carbohydrate intake (and almost eliminated processed carbs), and though I was not counting calories or macros, it likely put me in a caloric deficit on multiple days a week. Surprise, surprise, I lost a good bit of weight (20 lbs), and my blood numbers were night and day. However, as I am sure some of you might guess, I did run into a “wall” a few times on some of my harder cycling workouts. In changing my diet, I had failed to account for needing extra carbohydrate that I was no longer getting from my previously carbohydrate-rich daily diet. I was able to mostly address this somewhat with added whole grain carbohydrates and added fruit on the days where significant cycling workouts were on the books. I was, however, hesitant to introduce too much liquid sugar/sports drink back into my diet given the changes I was seeing, and the success I was having off the bike. As a result, I was still struggling some on longer or more intense rides – think 3 hours+, or multiple SST/FTP intervals.

Fast forward a bit, and I have strayed somewhat from this approach, and I am of course starting to feel a bit crummy again off the bike. Also, some of the weight I lost is creeping back. Given the prior approach seems to really work for me, I am planning on diving back in again.

So, with the obvious concern of cycling performance in mind, I am curious if there are any of you out there who follow a similar dietary approach – i.e., lower levels of daily processed carbohydrate intake, higher protein/fat, etc. – and still have had good success with harder/longer cycling workouts? If so, are you able to manage your fueling needs with on-the-bike intake of sugar/drink mix, etc., being the only real major source of processed carbohydrate you are taking in on a routine basis? And, if so, has the on-the-bike intake of more significant amounts of sugar stalled any progress or health benefits you’re seeing off the bike?

Stated differently, are there those of you out there who are following a carb-restricted approach off the bike, only taking in significant amounts of sugar on the bike, and still seeing success in both weight/health management and progress in cycling fitness??

[Pbase]

I find it’s very easy to lose weight by restricting carbs and fasting, but, like you, my aerobic cycling suffers. I do fine on those long Z2 rides and on VO2/Sprints, but all the extended Z3/Z4 stuff is just brutal. When I bring carbs back in, my cycling performance improves, but my weight goes up. I’ve never found a balance that works. This has been discussed in several other threads, and usually devolves (as you anticipated in your setup).

I end up yo-yoing between cutting weight and dropping ftp and then reintroducing more carbs which improves ftp but slowly (yet steadily) raises weight.

Just commenting to let you know you’re not alone.

[vbx2010]

How are you defining “success”? You mention you lost 20 lbs.; was that even your goal? Is that the weight that works best for you? Because that’s a lot of weight, and I’m sure it wasn’t all fat (meaning you lost muscle). As for carb restricted dieting, this has been discussed ad infinitum here, but i have yet to see any evidence that says that this works best for endurance athletes. Personally i just don’t understand why this is even considered an option for us. We eat today for tomorrow’s performance do we not?

[benc4]

Fwiw it sounds to me like you might be a person who would benefit from calorie/macro tracking. I know it sounds like a huge pain in the ass but it’s not bad once you get in the rhythm of it. I think it would help you find a balance between your goals for health/weight and for performance.

I think of it in a similar way to training with or without a power meter. Can you get fitter without a power meter? Yes, absolutely. Most people will do just fine without one. But, if you start to stagnate or feel like you can’t progress without burning out, the precision of training with power can be very helpful in managing that balance of making progress without pushing too far.

To me, tracking calories is a similar thing. You can absolutely lose weight without it. But, when you hit a roadblock and you’re trying to fine tune the details of your diet, having some more detailed information is helpful. I personally find I can continue with solid training in a modest calorie deficit (up to 500 cal or so) but if I get much over that the fatigue piles up quickly. And I don’t think I could consistently stay in that neighborhood without tracking.

Just my two cents

[trpnhntr]

I eat very few refined carbs off the bike and eat 100-120g/hour on the bike

However - I still eat a ton of carbs off the bike. Just because you’re limiting things like bread and pasta doesn’t mean you can’t eat carbs. I think conflating limiting carbs with limiting refined carbs is a very common mistake

Yesterday, for example, I ate around 900g of carbs total - of which only 200g of which were refined (180g of these were consumed on a 2 hour ride) - all the rest were whole foods (i.e. carbs wrapped in fiber)

Following this approach I stay relatively lean and maintain a relatively high FTP. 6’3", 172ish lbs, 370ish FTP currently (varies from 360-390 depending on training focus)

[MikeMunson]

Management of all these moving parts isn’t as easy for all of us as it is for vbx2010, obviously. I’ve always struggled with overeating, and carbs bring on binges, for me, so after losing a bunch of weight (75#) in 2012, and getting back on the bike then, after a 15 year hiatus, it got harder and harder to find a balance between my weight and habits and fueling my increasing bike riding. I experimented with keto quite a bit, on and off, and got fairly well fat adapted (to where I could get in and out of ketosis in a 1-2 days ), but I couldn’t ride (mtb) for any length of time due to the punchiness of our trails. I also tried intermittent fasting, and that just didn’t work because I wasn’t getting the protein I knew I needed.

So, I started targeting my carb intake for my riding. I don’t eat as clean as you obviously want, and I still have trouble with binging. But, I’ve lost just under 20# over the last year (it’s 2 steps forward, 1 step back, but still moving in the right direction). Oh, and my ftp was about 236 in Jan '24 and is somewhere between 300 and 320 now, so I’ve obviously lost some muscle, as vbx2010 says, but those bigger bulges in my legs above my knees suggest I didn’t lose it in my legs. So, yeah, it’s possible. I’ve shattered all the PRs I set back in 2017 and 2018 when I was getting good newbie gains from riding more consistent and getting into the 4-6 hr/wk realm, and before I started gaining some of the weight back, and thus started messing with ketosis.

I don’t do very strict structure for training. I’m retired, and like to ride outside. So, my week usually looks like:

• Tues & Wed (&sometimes Thurs) 1.5-2 hr z2 sessions inside per week (and don’t fuel them beyond the sugar/honey in my coffee) and maybe a banana for my morning snack after. My carbs on Mon-Wed are usually total 100-150g, my focus is on my protein macro.
• Fri. do one paved/forest road ride (3-4 hrs, some z2, mostly z3, some z4, usually eat oatmeal or a couple pancakes for breakfast, and then 60g/hr maltodextrine gel/drink mix),
• Sat. do a 2-2.5 hr mtb singletrack some z3 & mostly z4 (short enough that I’ll often just have eggs for breakfast, but take in 60g/hr malto gel/drink mix),
• and Sunday usually a 2 hr mtb ride with my friends, who don’t ride as much, but it’s hillier and more tech, and sprint, break, sprint, break…so I eat eggs for breakfast and will eat 2 or 3 gels (25g carbs each).

I’m using HR outside (no pm), and have been doing so for 10 years, so I’m comfortable with where I am zone-wise. The last couple weeks I’ve been doing a 1.5 hr, 7x3min interval session on Wed (sugar in coffee plus 1 gel when I start warmup, another after the 2nd interval), so one I’ve backed off the effort on one of my weekend rides to low z3. And, on those hard Fri-Sun days, I’ll eat lots of fruit, some pasta or a potato or tortillas, and on the big calorie burn days usually a pint of good
ice cream. Like I said, not as clean as you want it, but I’m otherwise eating meat, vegetables, and fruit, and I’m gaining muscle and power and losing weight, and I’m 55yo. I am on a statin because my LDL stays high, but my triglycerides used to be way too high, and I’ve had them well under control, even without the statin (took a break from statin during covid). I’d say it’s worth experimenting with…these charts I see saying that, at a desired weight of 180 and riding 10 hrs per week, I should be consuming 450-900 g of carbs per day is mind boggling. I don’t seem to have a lot of muscle storage, though, I have trouble doing intensity without carbs, even in that under 2 hrs timeframe, but I’d rather take in the carbs on the bike than realize at 8pm that my body is calling for them.

[AlexOrbea]

Here are some thoughts that may help inform/counter some concerns. I’ve always struggled with my weight and am not a cyclist but I am a keen endurance competitor. I cannot race/train without high carbs but also cannot lose weight without cutting them significantly.

1. Do you cycle for fun/hobby? Your health and longevity has to be primary over a few Watts on your ftp. Mental health is a factor, and if riding well is important for your wellbeing then that has to be accommodated. So perhaps focus on your health and then allow a concession for allowing better performance on the bike.

2. “Refined Carbohydrates” should not really include pasta and white rice (especially as these are easily replaced with whole-wheat pasta and basmati or brown rice). Let’s be honest, we’re talking about white flour and sugar, and more importantly, the other crap that generally goes along with processed foods as a whole. Pretty much any issue with breads, white pasta and white flours (i.e. low micro-nutrient, high GI foods) can be offset by the addition of healthy fats, fibres, and proteins anyway but more healthful alternatives would be better.

So I would say you’re doing the right thing by cutting all the refined carbs when off the bike but could ensure the riding goes well by including enough “good” carbs off the bike, and a minimal effective dose of drink mix/gels (or more natural products?) on the bike. To try and get a balance.

And if you do all that, please let me know how you did it!!

[KWcycling]

I don’t restrict carbs at all, and eat a carb rich diet, but just don’t really eat highly processed carbs. Breakfast is fruit and oats blended in a smoothie. Lunch is a bowl of oatmeal with peanuts, peanut butter and banana, dinner varies but always has plenty of rice (half white / half brown) or whole wheat pasta. I don’t really have anything in my diet that’s ’added sugar’ or ‘non-whole grain’. If I do a longer ride (2hr+), I bring bottles of table sugar.

Why not consider eating plenty or carbs throughout your day, but just whole grain versions?

[webdev511]

Macro tracking is the way to go, but yeah it’s a hard habit to make. I’m still figuring out how to get there.

I think everyone here agrees that tapering off of, let’s call it machine/chemically processed carbs is the best first step. I still eat lots of carbs, sweet potatoes, rolled or steel cut oats, whole grain breads, etc. as part of my daily diet, but on the bike, it’s gummies, nerd cluster, cinnamon bears, 150g of carbs in a 750ml bottle, stroop waffles, and the like.

Fuel the workout, fuel the recovery, and make an effort to focus on whole foods. I have to keep my ride food in the garage, because it’s too easy to just drive by and grab a handful of flavored sugar, when a couple of dates, and some olives will fill me up just fine, but have slower carb release due to the fiber.

The other thing I learned while working with Uri Carlson last year, is that when you’re eating a meal recognize when you’re full and STOP EATING. Many of us here are of the “you don’t get to leave the table until you’ve cleared your plate” generations. Well guess what, you don’ t have to. It’s okay to have some leftovers to graze on later as a snack. You don’t have to finish it all at home, or at the Cheesecake Factory. (horrendously large portions of typically “okay” food) Yes I CAN clear my plate, but I don’t do it anymore.

[mwglow15]

I agree with others on the calorie counting. You don’t have to do it forever but if you’ve never done it before that even for like 3-7 days can be super informative.

That “serving” of pasta that you normally give yourself is probably more like 2.5 servings. and that’s probably the case for lots of different food items.

For myself, after measuring my calories for several short stints I almost always realize that my self portioned servings have slowly grown larger and larger and I have to scale back to where I want them to be. i.e. that 100g serving of rice slowly grows to 150+g over the course of a couple months. (and even worse with things like peanut butter and ice cream).

IMO, carb restriction, intermittent fasting, and other techniques work for some people but in general you’re addressing symptoms and not the root cause of the issue. In the end they are all just tricks to consume less calories when you could just count your calories and actually see what the root cause is and where you’re going wrong.

[ArthurV]

So, with the obvious concern of cycling performance in mind, I am curious if there are any of you out there who follow a similar dietary approach – i.e., lower levels of daily processed carbohydrate intake, higher protein/fat, etc. – and still have had good success with harder/longer cycling workouts?

Yes I do. I train on average 15 hrs a week and eat unprocessed with very few carbs 5 days a week. Two days a week I eat rice and drink glucose, typically during the 48 hours prior to a race or hard training ride.

If so, are you able to manage your fueling needs with on-the-bike intake of sugar/drink mix, etc., being the only real major source of processed carbohydrate you are taking in on a routine basis?

I don’t eat or drink much while on the bike. Sometimes I put a scoop of glucose in my water bottle but it doesn’t make any noticeable difference to my performance.

[carytb]

@KWcycling

Why not consider eating plenty or carbs throughout your day, but just whole grain versions?

Presumably like me, a concern about too many carbs off the bike leading to high BG, insulin resistance and diabetes?

[AJS914]

@carytb

too many carbs off the bike leading to high BG, insulin resistance and diabetes?

If that even a thing if you are burning those carbs while on the bike and not over eating or gaining weight?

I’ve never heard of a thin, super active person getting diabetes.

I don’t think carbohydrates, especially healthy whole food carbs directly cause diabetes but only that they can contribute to it if the person is overeating and in a chronic calorie surplus. Sure, I wouldn’t suggest anyone swill maltodextrine off the bike.

[trpnhntr]

@carytb

a concern about too many carbs off the bike leading to high BG, insulin resistance and diabetes?

You’re conflating carbs with processed/refined carbs. You can eat tons of carbs and not get the blood sugar spikes - just eat low GI carbs - i.e. carbs wrapped in fiber. Doesn’t work well on the bike because they process slowly, but off the bike they are just fine

[carytb]

@trpnhntr

. You can eat tons of carbs and not get the blood sugar spikes - just eat low GI carbs

Couldn’t agree more

@AJS914

I don’t think carbohydrates, especially healthy whole food carbs directly cause diabetes but only that they can contribute to it if the person is overeating and in a chronic calorie surplus.

Yes, and one of the side effects of cutting back was I lost a bit of weight. Again reading around the subject it seems that losing weight is a key to controlling/ eliminating diabetes. The concern is still there though no matter how illogical. It does however serve a purpose in keeping me on track

[BikerJens]

The big problem seems to be that people have heard that you need to avoid carbs and they are bad for you.

This is story telling and not close to true. There is so many more layers to nutrition than just “carbs=bad”.

Why should pasta, rice etc. be bad for you?

[cmc274]

I’ve had very good luck with the FoodCoach App for supporting cycling performance as well as managing diet.
Hexis is quite popular as well I believe. These apps build your daily nutrition around your training, adjusts subsequent meal needs based on actual training & completed meals and allows for calorie / macro tracking.

Maybe the most eye opening thing for me was the amount of food required to support a larger training load. Some days it seems like work to get sufficient calories of quality food into the system.

As many have mentioned above, you will need to include non processed carbs throughout your day but there’s no reason they can’t support both your health and cycling goals. One thing I’ve noticed about the app is that besides on the bike, you’re never consuming carbs alone, there’s always a mix of proteins and fats.

[webdev511]

@cmc274

One thing I’ve noticed about the app is that besides on the bike, you’re never consuming carbs alone, there’s always a mix of proteins and fats.

and if it’s not suggesting it…FIBER. because that slows things down and minimizes the potential for insulin spikes.

FWIW, this thread also tangents on EP 528 where Dr. Kyle talks about insulin resistance and some traits of endurance athletes.

[Bones]

@webdev511

and if it’s not suggesting it…FIBER. because that slows things down and minimizes the potential for insulin spikes.

This has been working really well for me over the past couple of months combined with higher protein intake. The struggle I have had in the past is the classic yo-yoing of insulin spikes and valleys caused by eating too much high glycemic carbs. You feel like you are chasing your tail all day. My workouts were good (becuase my carbs stores were always topped up), but I was overconsuming simple carbs and feeling hungry all time. Adding more protein and flatting that BG line really helps regulate things. So, my rule now is I strive for almost all my carbs to be as high fiber as possible off the bike, and all my carbs on the bike to be as low fiber as possible (sugar and malto).

[burnett2k]

This looks awesome! I was getting ready to start tracking macros more closely and was looking at myFitnessPal. The amount of training I do is a huge factor in my diet though, so something that actively updates based on training would be amazing. What kind of benefits have you seen from using the app exactly? I’m definitely curious. I’ve gone by gut feeling for years now and always felt like I was overeating, but pretty sure I was just eating so much fiber and healthy food that I felt full, but wasn’t getting adequate carbs and protein.