I’d do it the other way. Set your FTP at what makes the threshold/SS work correct (360?), and then IF you’re getting completely cooked by the vo2 max work and they’re not completable, drop it down 3%.
Eventually you’ll likely be able to do the vo2 max work as prescribed, and the ramp test will start to better reflect your whole power curve.
Yeah, but this is sort of what I was doing before. The problem I had is getting myself to consistently perform an assessment. I suppose the 20min test would work well for me but I know I will find excuses not to do it when it comes up in my plan!
I like the Ramp test as a quick and dirty snapshot of my fitness, acknowledging all the caveats.
I am a fellow ramp test avoider and like you have a “flatter” power curve. Today I was crushing SS efforts around 94-95% but I nearly die for 2 minutes at 120-125%. The last time I took a ramp test it would have dropped my FTP by about 20%.
Personally I know I need to work on Vo2 in a major way and am planning on a real attempt at the general build plan starting in a couple of weeks. In the last few years I’ve done tons of Z2–>SS riding since I like it and it is in keeping with my (very long) race goals. But this fall I was faced with the fact that my lack of repeatable Vo2 efforts cost me a podium spot, and if I want to stay at the pointy end of even a 5+ hr race I need a broader toolset.
I think it more so relates to what Chad had mentioned on the podcast that VO2 might not be 120% of ftp for everyone. For some it’s lower, others higher. It’s not “failing” a workout if you know yours is a bit lower and you’re knocking back the prescribed percentage of high intensity intervals.
Mentally it’s a kick in the pants which can make you feel bad if you let it, but rather than think of it like you’re doing less effort you should more so be chasing a specific feeling (that high level breathing and screaming pain in your legs).
Definitely.
So think of it this way: the Ramp Test will give me a relatively lower FTP number and the 20min test will give me a higher FTP number.
If I go with the Ramp Test number, I will hit my VO2max targets but SS/Threshold may be too easy (so I can nudge up the IF).
If I go with the 20min test number, my SS/Threshold targets will be good but I have to turn down V02max.
I would rather do the Ramp Test because the duration of suffering is shorter, so I’m much less likely to find an excuse not to do it. I think this is particularly important for the non-linear nature of fitness progression.
So I suppose it’s an implementation issue for me!
Yep also depends on what your goals are. If I get a higher number from the longer test I’m taking that since there are more workouts in the sweetspot/threshold zone in full plan cycle compared to VO2. Might as well get the additional work in and burn those extra calories.
As I said before, the issue is that you’re trying to train BY power, instead of WITH power.
My advice would be to stop using erg mode and just do the efforts as hard as you can for the duration, while being able to back them up day-to-day, etc…boom, problem solved.
I hear what you’re saying but I like training by power.
Meaning you like being constantly confused as to whether you have achieved “mastery”* or are improving as much as possible?
*WTF is that? Since when did riding a bike become something akin to karate, with color-coded belts and all that BS?
Pay your money, pin on a number, and effing race…then you’ll know whether you have achieved “mastery” or not.
Ummm…yes?
This my friend would probably lead to overreaching.
Coach says to do a couple of 20 min tempo intervals, but I can ride above threshold for 20 mins so I’ll do that instead. Coach says to do zone 2 for 2 hours, but I can ride tempo for longer than that, so I’ll do that instead. You see where I’m going?
A good training plan will make sure you’re ramping up at the appropriate amount. Don’t think a plan would work if you just go as hard as you can every session.
I’m talking about true intervals, where you have to break things up, not endurance or tempo efforts, where rest periods are unnecessary.
An example would be Seiler’s 4 x 8 minute VO2max interval prescription - athletes were instructed to maximize the work across the entire session, while going as hard as they can. It worked like a charm, no erg mode required.
Funny, i also do sustain power build, but my Problem is muscular endurance. The Problem is for me that the Ramp Test overestimates me. I Testet 279W a few weeks ago. My Recent best 20min all out was 288W on a TimeTrial and my best Power for 1h was 260W the day after.
My training FTP is at 270W and workout feel hard, the big difference is the numbers above are from races, where it is easy to go all out and push to the limits. In the workouts, I have too much time to think, and I am wasting energy been afraid to not meet my expectations and fail a workout. I am working on that as well… it is getting better but takes time.
So for me, the 20min test is way more difficult and i value it way more then the Ramptest. The 1h effort was a controlled effort i didn’t like to blow up so i never really went into the red until the last 1min.
Here my Power Profile it bet ours the opposite. You are better about the longer stuff? VO2max is hard for me but I usually don’t fail them.
In your case i would do the Long stuff at the higer FTP and Dail the VO2max down to the % of the Ramp Test FTP
Nice short power! I assume you have never tested your 5 min or you are so much anaerobic skewed?
Yes i had a 4 min Test on the Zwift Academy recently , 5 min has been a while. And the 4 min really where all out. After that is where i am currently working at to get better SS and Threshold. The stuff you are very good at 
I am just asking because your 1 min power is like my 1s 
And it is always interesting to see completely other side of things.
Yes it is fun for some short Kom outside. But rather have my 1hPower closer to my ftp.
I used to be overweight and my guess is that i did keep more muscles.Thats the only explain i have. I lost about 25kg in 6 months and another 4kg in the following 6 months.
Different eating and cycling indoor and outdoor 4 to 5 days a week. Now weight is stable, maybe my 1 min power is a left over from caring 30kg fat for 10 years
These are quite extreme weight loses! So I can only congratulate another achievement:)
Thanks mate. Despite everything been crazy around the world. I am doing better than in a long time.
I tried very hard to follow through with ramp tests, but they are not for me and I don’t know why. One thing I thought of is that as opposed to intervals where you “know when it will end”, a ramp test continues unless your yourself stop.
So you could say I feel less confident about powering through in a ramp test than in a training where I can think “I should be able to do this… it was designed so you can barely sustain it”. In fact, that is how I often evaluate my threshold and VO2max trainings: “I don’t know how I did it, but somehow I did it again.”
Whereas with a ramp test I just want to lie down on a couch and cry. I did four ramp tests this year… every time they were 10-15 watts lower than what I can train at inside on my tacx. And even intervals.icu estimates my ftp at where I manually set it. So what I do is, I use a reference training for myself (Red Lake +8) and see where my heart rate is. If it is against the 168-170 at the end, I am good. If it already ramps up to 170 in the first interval, I probably went too far (or have a bad day… but that can also happen with the ramp test).
Since I am still in noob gains (just over a year of consistent training), I know I can approximately do 10-15 watts more after 7 weeks of sustained power build. So in a way, for me, Red Lake +8 is my own personal ramp test.
