Any Nordic Skiers? Adapt a Training Plan?

Any other nordic skiers in the audience?

I’ve been toying with the idea of adapting one of the plans for a nodric ski focus. It seems to me that skiing could be similar to cycling in the ability for the body to handle more sweet spot type work than say running can.

Initially I was thinking about just focusing on the outlines of the workouts and executing them outside by HR and RPE. Maybe someday I will get a skierg though and the workouts could translate more directly straight to indoor training. I wonder what my skierg FTP is…

I’ve got 15 weeks until the A race of the season. Races vary from 10k to 50k (25 minutes to 2:30).

The guys talked about ski’ing on todays podcast - maybe worth a listen

hi, could you please provide a link to this podcast? because I can’t find it :wink:

It’s a really interesting topic for me as well. Now I live near great xc skiing trails system and it’s my main activity during the winter. I mean 4-5 times per week. I’m wondering about how to structure this rides with a better impact on my mountain biking’s form :wink:

@adhed @GrahamH

We actually talked about Backcountry Touring, not nordic skiing. These are both different forms of skiing but both are incredibly good exercise. If you are still interested, here is the discussion:

As for using our training plans to train for nordic, I haven’t heard of anybody doing this but if you followed the general outline of a workout, I bet it could have a positive effect on your training! It won’t be perfect but it could work! :slight_smile:

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Thanks Ian! This one I’ve already listened and it’s a really great podcast!

I will look into some articles and other materials about xc skiing and just enjoy this activity. Of course some general rules like hard/easy days I’m trying to apply and it’s going well because I’m still working on my technique. It’s a really enjoyable acitivity and if it will give me additionally a better performance on the bike - great, but if not, I will still do that because I just love it :smiley: Thanks!

Are you skate skiing or classic? I’ve read that skate skiing utilises similar muscles to cycling and classic to running. I do triathlons so think of my classic sessions as a little extra run training :slight_smile:

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I’m just only skate skiing, but I think about buying a classic skiis as well - it’s worth to know two styles and develop both, to be honest movements of the upper-body are very similar.

And that’s true - movements on skate skiing are more similar to cycling and in classic little similar to running. However, with the proper technique and current trend, skate skiing is more about leg work and classic skiing is more about work of the upper-body. During the races skiers could use the double polling technique on almost the whole lap :smiley:

As the air is cooling I’m beginning to think winter and xc (nordic) skiing again. :slight_smile:

Has anyone modified a Triathlon plan to use for Nordic skiing? Or have thoughts or feedback on doing so?

I used Plan Builder to map out a mid-volume plan that begins in early November and wraps up late June for my A event, a 140 mile / 9,000 ft gran fondo. But, by the time I layer in anticipated runs and xc skis I’m well into high-volume territory and I know honestly I won’t have the capacity (time & will power) for that volume.

I’m thinking of trying mid-volume triathlon base and build plans through early March (ski season), but swapping out the swims for dryland training until the snow flies and then swapping out the swims and some runs for xc skiing once there’s skiing. I would drop the brick workouts altogether. This still gives me 3-4 bike sessions a week while accounting for runs, skis, and a rest day.

Come early March I would transition back to a cycling-focused MV plan.

I am thinking something like this:

Nov - Jan (8 weeks): MV 1/2 Distance Base - 4 rides / 3 runs / 3 dryland workouts
Jan - March (6 weeks): MV Olympic Build - 3 rides / 1-2 runs / 3-4 skis
March - April (8 weeks): MV Sustained Power Build (or LV + outside rides)
April - June (8 weeks ): MV Climbing or Rolling Road Race Specialty (or LV + outside rides)

Or… am I really overthinking this and would I be better off by just rolling LV bike plans and then adding on the runs, skis, and outside rides time and weather permitting?

For what it’s worth: Up until now I’ve only done LV plans, but in addition to the workouts I was getting in 2-3 outside rides a week and had my six-week TSS average up to 520 TSS a week before my A event was canceled and I dialed down my training.

Check out Scientific Triathlon podcast, hes had a nordic ski coach on recently explaining his training principles - who doesnt use the concept of threshold.

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Nordic guy and learning biathlete here. My challenge has always been about the time I start a season I wrestle with doing well in the current season or using the current season to train for the next sport. :dizzy_face:

Do you recall the Scientific Triathlon episode number? Skimming the titles I didn’t catch anything that mentioned nordic skiing.

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It’s episode #245 from earlier this month. It features Eirik Myhr Nossum, the head coach for Norway’s mens team. I gave it a listen tonight during a workout. Even though he’s working with athletes who put in 17-20 hours a week of training, there are some terrific nuggets in the interview for endurance athletes and coaches of endurance athletes.

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I’ve done just this. Unfortunately, tomorrow is my A race and it’s been postponed 3 weeks to a date I can’t attend. But, I’ve never been skiing faster and doing well in club racing.

I hope this sharing of a couple of things I did helps.

Plan builder- I used plan builder and for my A race considering the terrain and time of race used the TT plan. I was planning from the end of cycling season A race back end of February. (I’m in New Zealand).

Rollerski - I live 4 hrs from the ski field (at altitude in the Southern Alps) and there is no snow at home. So early season intervals (4-12 minute efforts) were on rskis. Lockdown was great for this as I had quiet roads and a perfect 3% gradient for this work; recovery on the downhill. Into the ski season late June and nearer racing,
Wednesday easy endurance sessions were on rskis and usually Sunday workouts as I ski Saturdays.

Skierg - I built a $20 adapter and created a Skir out of an old Kickr. Best thing ever. Used this for some of my TR workouts by swapping out the last one or two intervals from the bike to the Skir. (picture of this on the pain cave thread). I used perceived effort to try to do the same effort as the TR workout power target. Wish there were ‘multiple ftps’.

Ski technique - used www.NordicSkiLab.com, it’s awesome.

Inspiration, encouragement and learning - TR podcasts

Long drives - Spotify downloads, 4wd ski van to seat the whole family with comfort. Yeti cups for a flat white expresso 2 hours into the drive :slightly_smiling_face:

Overall, I’m really happy. My ftp went up throughout out the plan. Same ftp from the last ramp test to now, the week of the original A race. I believe I’ve traded some leg fitness to whole body fitness - based on my non science based logic. It will be really interesting to see how the TR crew go on this topic at they take on long distance tri.

For reference, I trained with HR and pretty modern training plans about 20 years ago. Then life and kids happened (although my wife is a long time TR user for Xterra racing during this time). I’m now into year 3 of using TR in my mid 40s.

cheers

edits for typos

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@canadiankiwijay Thank you for the proof of concept encouragement!
Too bad about your rescheduled race. :frowning:

BTW - I’d love to learn more about your DIY SkiErg. I was checking out your photos in the pain cave thread (clearly an active family!!!), but couldn’t figure out how you made it.

@JimA The ski erg was simple once you have a Kickr, or any other bike erg which takes a cassette.

The key piece is a ‘ski cassette’ which slides onto the freehub and becomes the drivetrain. I think a picture tells it best.

The parts of the cassette are from lateral to medial:

Plastic, old cassette spacers, plastic, cassette spider piece, more spacers, plastic.

The plastic is just circles of plastic which fit onto the freehub. I used some plumbing parts.

Cassette spacers are just that off a broken cassette.

Plastic

Cassette spider piece- again off a broken cassette. This is the heart of the skierg. On one side tire a long piece of bungy cord. I believe I used 2x 4mm bungy. On the other side, tie some cord. I used some 3mm climbing tech cord. The tech cord pulls and turns the cassette. The bungy pulls and freewheels the freehub in reverse. :+1:

More spacers

Plastic

The tech cord and bungy coil and uncoil around the freehub and are kept in position by the plastic pieces.

You need enough cord and bungy to get enough pull. I just redirected the bungy with pulleys of the Kickr base.

Above the Kickr, the tech cord connects to a rope that goes to a pulley on the ceiling and back down to combing webbing tied as biathlon straps. You’d have to alter the rope bit to do classic style (a real skierg basically has a double freehub concept). I’m using double polling and am happy with that. I think the pain cave pic shows that.

If you build one, please share some pics.