Sorry Trainer Road.
For the 2nd time in the past 6 months I’ve conducted a ramp test because I don’t trust the AI FTP detection assigned number. In both cases my assumptions were correct. A variation of 8% is a big number (error) which in turn will throw off your TR training plan. That 8% FTP variation unfortunately can result in wasted time doing inappropriate and less effective training, poor race performance and results.
My suggestion: Skip the AI FTP Detection and do a monthly Ramp Test.
Controversial opinion but Ramp Tests can also be inaccurate. Some people test high, especially those with higher anaerobic contributions. Others test low.
TR themselves say this
“ Although the Ramp Test was an improvement over the 20 and 8 Minute Tests, it still wasn’t without issue.
Our percentage of 1-minute max power on the Ramp Test worked for some athletes but not all athletes. “
Ramp testing different than what aiFTP says does not mean that the aiFTP result is wrong and the ramp is correct.
I would do a long form test to confirm either one. Or just ask how long you could hold either number? Are you 100% confident you could hold the FTP that the ramp test spits out for ~40m or more?
How long can you hold your AIFTP for?
It’s not even necessarily about hour power for TR’s purposes, it’s about calibrating your workouts to be in the right zone for you. The system seems to give me the right workouts when I use AIFTP, so that’s “accurate” for my use case. Riding outside is so different…I don’t think any FTP I’ve gotten on a trainer has translated very well to outside power.
I forget the exact numbers as I’ve not done a test in a while thankfully, but for me the ramp test was significantly lower than a 20 mins test and less than what I could hold in a 2hour time trial. The 20 min tests was at the upper end of my spectrum and whilst it would agree with some efforts it was probably marginally too high for all efforts. AI FTP has came back consistently with a number thats far greater than ramps and slightly lower than 20 minutes tests. Importantly it also feels right. So for me its the exact opposite, AI FTP Detection is Accurate!
I was not talking about hour power or comparing indoor vs outdoor ftp. Was just trying to see which one was more accurate for OP.
The bigger question and challenge I’m having is the inconsistency in their FTP platform and my loss of faith in their product. Pretty sure TR is now reviewing my post and rider feedback and I’m not expecting them to say “Oops, we have an issue” thanks for bringing this to our attention.
Has the aiFTP been giving inconsistent numbers or is it only in comparison to the ramp test that makes it inconsistent? Because as myself and other have said above a ramp test is not necessarily correct in determining one’s FTP.
Honestly there are far far fewer people complaining about the accuracy of AI FTP than any other form of FTP testing mentioned on the forum - which is amazing really.
It absolutely works for me for instance.
All I really care about is if I’m going to spend hundreds of hours training, money of course I want this program to be consistent without my having to question and second guess its accuracy.
I’ve done aiftp and ramp test back to back and been dead on, and posted it here. I didn’t expect them to say oops there is a problem when they matched so just because they are different for you this time doesn’t mean that there is in fact a problem with their system.
I also believe last year I did a KM test and aiftp in the same weekend and also found them to be close. aiftp before the km test in this case.
Recently I did 55 minutes at 1 watt below my FTP at the time and got 2.5% bump via AIFTP the next day. I’ll give them that they had the data at that point but had I been able to run it the morning before the race it probably would have been at least a 1-1.5% bump.
Ramp test is not the answer, aiftp might not be either for certain people but I’m relying on that more than I am a ramp test at this point.
Also it would help if you said which one was higher and lower.
Go do some workouts where you ride at what you think your FTP is - if you can’t make 30-40 minutes at a 7 out of 10 rpe (setting aside a full 60min) then it’s not your ftp.
That sort of defeats the purpose of my paying Trainer Road. The point is…this is their job and I pay them to provide a product that I believe in.
FTP is not something intrinsic to a athlete that can be measured. It is actually defined as a the result of a test. The test is intended to serve as a proxy for an actual lactate threshold test, which does measure an intrinsic characteristic of an athlete, but it is not that. The original one hr max effort is daunting, so shorter easier tests were developed to estimate a number that is about the same as might be gotten doing a 1hr test. AI ftp, is just another method that estimates an FTP number. Different individuals respond differently to the different tests so results will vary. Two that get the same result from a 20 minute test will likely get different results from a ramp test. Generally speaking, the differences are not huge, and close enough to base training on as long as the testing method is consistent.
The title of this thread is “ai ftp is not accurate” I am confused as to how you validating that it is wrong? I get that you are seeing an 8% difference between ramp and ai but am unclear as to how you have decided that ai is the incorrect one.
Do they need to do this 2 days in a row?
Are you expecting a different outcome/response vs the thread you started yesterday?
My guess is the AI FTP is “wrong” because its lower than the ramp test result. No one likes a low number 
Not to get into FTP testing methods, there are many other threads discussing this, but even the ramp test protocol has a minimum 5% range. According to Ric Stern most will fall between 72-77% of MAP.
https://www.cyclecoach.com/blog/2020/2/2/is-the-map-ramp-test-a-valid-estimator-of-ftp
You are the one doing ramp tests and saying that AI FTP is incorrect. The ramp test is known to deliver highly variable results.
If you want to prove AI FTP wrong then go ride 45 minutes at your ramp FTP. It should feel like a 7 to 8/10th RPE. If you are killing yourself to maintain that wattage or can’t even get to 45+ then the ramp test over estimates your FTP.
These longer threshold workouts end up just being a nice workout. They are no big deal.