I get slightly higher numbers ramp testing but using that for my ftp usually burns me out whereas I’ve been happy using the aiftp number since it came out. So aiftp = better training.
Joe
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I disagree, I have done many different tests over the years; 20 min, 5 min, ramp, and AI FPT is the best for setting my training FPT. I hate ramp tests.
I feel like you are just trolling.
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I think, as long as I don’t let my membership lapse then rejoin, AI FTP works perfectly.
I totally love the TP platform, ease of use both indoor and outdoors is amazing. I want this to work however user feedback on what we feel may not be working is critical. Been riding and racing my entire life, had coaches for years and have also used TR on and off for almost 10. When my race performance declines I have to look at reasons for that and it lined up at the same time as when the AI detection was introduced. AI lowered my FTP, then adjusted my training (lower) based on that and then when I did races my perceived exertion and overall performance had a noticeable decline. I wasn’t just having a bad day on the bike and I feel something is up with the analytics or whatever thus I’m now here looking for answers. I simply don’t want to be going down the wrong path with my training and wasting time doing the wrong thing.
Also, “Not Trolling” that’s an unfair thing to say.
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Any method of predicting FTP will give varying results depending on if the athlete is better or worse at the particular type of effort used for the estimation.
Even the actual physiological definition of FTP doesn’t necessarily provide a better number to base your training on than any of the estimations.
Two people with the same physiological FTP can have a big difference in actual performance due to the time the athlete can spend at that power. This can vary between athletes and is itself trainable.
I am not saying that AIFTP is the best way of estimating physiological FTP - but it has been proven to be great at providing the foundation for the workouts in TrainerRoad.
The OPs other thread shows all the indications that their FTP was set to high for it to be productive.
I’m not saying their FTP isn’t what they say it is - it might be - but I believe that they would be given more productive workouts within TrainerRoad if they had their FTP set to where AIFTP told them to.
I have WKO5 (from my TT days) , I try and keep my power duration curve maintained. This then gives me a mFTP and also optimised intervals. I also have an intervals.icu account and TrainerRoad. Using the protocol for the WKO5 PD curve, all three give me an FTP within a couple of watts of each other.
The beauty of this method (for me) is that I can validate my estimated or AI generated FTP when I do my long duration test. If my FTP goes up that’s great, if it goes down I need to look at why maybe and perhaps change something, most often it goes down after a period of unstructured riding or lower volume, but when I do start doing workouts at least I have workouts that are set at the right level and are productive. FTP is just one metric, use it to help make some decisions but using it as the be all and end all for training is a bit misguided.
In the OP’s case, if you haven’t already, I’d do a series of PD tests and then see where you are at.
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But you didn’t accept it according to TR. Aiftp suggested a lower ftp, you said eh I know better and trained at the ftp you wanted to. How can you blame the lower ftp?
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To confirm, yesterday I completed a Ramp Test and my FTP is 249. Prior to that I checked my TR app and it said my FTP is 232.
Lot’s of chatter saying “don’t read too much into FTP variability”, but the entire TrainerRoad training platform is totally based on FTP.
Maybe we simply disregard anything FTP and just go with Perceived Exertion? Not very scientific but if we’re negating these FTP variabilities that’s also not very scientific and we’re wasting our time.
A reliable, measurable benchmark is critical to any successful program.
Wasn’t this addressed in your thread yesterday? Someone from TR pointed out you’ve been doing very low progression level workouts at what their system considers a too-high FTP, which is not a recipe for progression.
If I were you I’d accept the lower FTP number, do the workouts prescribed and rate them honestly in the post-workout survey. If you feel like they’re super easy, “test up” by picking, completing, and rating significantly harder (higher progression level) alternatives. I’d be shocked if after 4 weeks of doing that consistently your aiFTP wasn’t raised, and as you’d have been doing higher PL workouts all the while you’d probably actually be stronger across a range of durations.
As is you’re not actually using the system as it’s intended to be used, then complaining you’re not getting the results you expect. “I substituted mashed bananas for the butter and the cookies weren’t very good, one star for this recipe…”
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Shockingly the “wrong” one is the lower one.
How long can you hold the ramp test ftp? If you went and tried to ride at 250w how many minutes could you hold it for?
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I would do exactly what @Chain_of_Fools said. Do this for 4 weeks, you will see a big difference.
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So if the training was too easy why didn’t you indicate that in the after workout surveys? TR would have adjusted. We have already established you were not using AIFTP because you didn’t update or accept it. Did you also not use the after ride surveys?
If you are frustrated with TR, I would take a break from it. I’m considering the same thing. But if you don’t use the tools they can’t work.
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You love TR but you are focusing on the single least important aspect. All auto FTP calculators are flawed until you show them what you can do. TR works through progression levels and how you rate the workouts plus the actual watts produced.
The ramp test is probably the worst test to confirm your suspicions.
Go ride at 250w, see how long you go, and prove it. If you make 30+ minutes at 250, preferably 40-45+, then voila you know your ftp, set it in TR, and let it work from there.
All this is easily solved in one short workout session.
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Seeing as op has yet to verify either ftp (and especially the one they claim is correct) it seems they just want to complain at this point.
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Honestly, I’ve never understood how athletes can train 200-400-600+ hours per year yet nobody wants to spend 30-40-60 minutes at threshold.
Threshold is a 7/10th effort. It’s not a gut busting 8 or 20 minute ftp test or an all out ramp test.
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Exactly! I don’t even find the workout uncomfortable - at most the last 5 or 10 minutes of your TTE. Once one leans the “in and out of sustainable” you don’t even have to go the distance. I get to 30 or 40 minutes and I know I could go another 15 minutes on the in side. Voila, one has found their FTP.
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Maybe I’m wrong but if threshold is the hardest you can ride for 30-75 minutes I think it’s pretty hard. Usually starts as a 7/10 but by the time you are about to finish it certainly feels closer to a 9 or 10 as you get to time to exhaustion.
Then again maybe I’m doing threshold very wrong
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If it ever feels like 9 out of 10 or 10 out of 10 then you probably went too far.
Breathing should never be out of control. When you hit the end of your TTE, your legs may say they’ve had enough but it’s not a hard fail. People generally don’t fall over at the end of a 40k TT.
It’s more about finding the sustainable pace. You only have to go all the way if you want to find your TTE.
This illustrates why most hated the 20 minute FTP test. It’s 20 minutes at roughly 105%. You never find sustainable. You are always over the line and then people often do a 1, 2, or 3 minute all out effort at the end. That is, if they haven’t already failed before the end of the test.
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Ok, we’re flogging a dead horse on this topic and thank everyone for the feedback. I like my Ramp Test FTP 249 vs the AI 232 thus the TR plan will amend my training based on the new higher number. I’ll look forward to the higher effort training demands and more importantly feeling like I’m better equipped to compete.
Cheers
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Part of the amending to the plan is the ftp adjustment… feel free to train however you wish but it’s a bit rich to then blame the program when you don’t follow it.
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