A Time Trialing Thread

I‘d recommend retesting with a larger (especially longer) bottle. The difference between 0.5L bike specific bottle and a soft 1.5L water bottle was big for me. I am pretty tall with a long torso, so this isn’t for everyone.
The softer bottle however conforms better to the torso and is thereby more comfy.
Also, the main function of the chest fairing is not, as often quoted, to „close the gap between the arms“, but to relieve air pressure off the hips and legs.
The longer bottle should definitely do that better.


I guess height wise we are somewhat comparable. I will get some squishy 1.5l bottle today and retest it next week if the weather allows it. We are somewhat lucky currently in Germany with having such incredible weather this late in the year.
What I meant with my comment on head position: For me the gap between hands and head is rather small already and if I go slightly higher next season with my hands it will get even more blocked from the wind. Maybe thats a reason why I see little gain from this when compared to the high head, low arms positions many triathletes use that saw significant gains in that youtube video?

Example picture from one of my last races:


Looking a lot more aero than me with a soft bladder stuffed down the skinsuit.

From afar it doesn’t look too bad.

Ive actually changed my cups & poles for this season, angled cups and 35deg poles (the old ones were 45deg) probably not a massive change but more comfortable and confidence inspiring.

A pic of the set up but without a soft bladder.


“Soft bladder”……is that what we are calling it these days?



A Camelbak bladder without the bag :joy:

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I don’t think my eyes will be able to look ahead for a long period of time based on the way your position looks. I’m very impressed you can hold that position. I think I would get a headache from that position!

Well done! One of those very few people that makes that helmet look good and aero. (to the degree that I even get curious of testing it)

You would need to be doing the Tony Martin eyeball training with a pencil stuck to your forehead.


Ordered a 45mm mono spacer (now on the 25mm one), Trek Mono Plug-In to fit regular extensions and the Vision Speed J-bend extensions to play around with my position.

Did a bit of aero testing yesterday while the weather was still good (rest of the coming 1-1.5 weeks looks terrible) using Aerotune and while I would like to validate by doing another test but on a longer stretch of road, the large MET Drone WB resulted in a 12W improvement at 45kph compared to the medium Giro Aerohead.

Might have to take it with a grain of salt for now but even if it’s only 8W then I’m still happy, at least it seems to do a good job of deflecting air around my shoulders :slight_smile:

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On September 24th I took part in the 44. BMW Vierermannschaftszeitfahren – a 4 people TTT from BMW on their test track north of Munich.
The race is 9 laps on the 7,77km long course which equals 70km in total, almost no elevation and corners with such a wide radius that you never even have to think about braking. I rode with 3 team members of my cycling club which I would classify as one being slightly faster than myself, one slightly slower than myself and one for motivation (if you happen to read this Harry, I still love you :wink: ).

Before the race we consulted with friends of the team, Aero- and TTT-experts from Aerofitting (they were part of forming a winning team for the German TTT national championship). Our main takeaways from that were that we should train together as often as possible (which we failed with never training in the full team), ride short leads of about 20-30s, when one rider is exhausted try to keep them in the train and rather have them skip their lead as this provides an aerodynamic advantage for everyone, adjust lead times instead of lead speed and some more details on how to efficiently switch the leading rider.

Race day 2h to 1h before the race:
We all meet up 2h before our start time as the race organizers had a mandatory safety meeting at this time, which we only partially could follow as we were stuck in the long queue for getting our timing chips and having our bikes checked…not for UCI compliance but for it being able to break and not have a loose headset bearing. Havent had that checked on my bike before a race yet, but all our bikes passed without an issue. Harry and myself knew the course and the safety concept from a previous 40km TT we rode on that very course a few months earlier, so we could quickly sum up where the racing line is, what to do in case of an emergency and how to overtake others. As we still had plenty time we went back to the carpark, attached the timing chips on our bikes and attached the race numbers to our suits before, still having plenty of time, sitting down to have some pre-race coffee and having a lovely chat with the multiple time winning team that parked right next to us. When we offered them coffee they were first suspicious, but in the end as we drank first also agreed on a cup whilst the trash-talk (“Oh, you plan on going so slow that you wear the sub 50kph Rule28 base layer?” or something like this, its been a month…), gear and aerodynamics nerd-chat kept on.

Race day 1h before the race:
Its time to start our warm up and check for the initial order in which we want to ride. For the warm up we could use a giant, paved circle inside one of the race tracks corners. We ended up with aiming for 49kph at the start, possibly increasing it later in the race and the initial order being myself, the faster rider, the slightly slower rider and Harry. This was a mistake as we later had to find out the hard way.

As the second to last team we started on the 7.77km long course and quickly found our rhythm. I started getting up to 30kph out of the saddle, but with moderate power, then sat down and got into the aerobars and slowly driving it up to about 50kph with 350-ish Watt. When I next checked my Garmin I already was way past my lead time, so I shouted “WECHSEL” (we agreed on this very specific word which means “Switch” in German as it was easy to understand and distinguish from any exhaustion sound people tend to do :smiley:), gave one pedal spin of higher power to create a small gap and drift to the right so my team members could pass by. As I saw the second rider passing me I prepared for slotting in again behind the third and it went like a charm. One could think we did practice this. And for the next laps it went on like this, smooth and efficient. On the second lap we figured out that we had slight headwind on the start straight which we could avoid by going a little of the racing line, closer to the tree-line next to the track. As we overtook many teams on the still very crowded track we were stuck in the “fast lane” anyway.
The next moment I can remember is passing the 35km mark and still feeling strong and fresh when suddenly the very team that we shared our coffee with before the start and multiple timer winner passed us…With 2-minute start intervals I was slightly shocked that they gained so much time on us already. But we started with the plan of a negative split, so maybe we could limit the loss in the second half of the race. I think my mates were as shocked as I was and did not want to give up already which one could feel by an increase in speed right when the other team was out of the 10m anti-draft range of the organizer. After a few hundred meters the “chase” stopped and we calmed down, settling for a slightly increased speed, but letting the other team go.
With 2 laps to go Harry suddenly got cramps and just dropped out, leaving it to the remaining three of us. As I was, up to this point, riding behind Harry I suddenly didn’t have the slipstream of a musculus 1.9m guy in front of me anymore. In hindsight we should have placed the slightly slower rider behind him and not me. We somehow got the order mixed prior to this point, too. I was drafted by the slightly slower rider who, after the race, complained that I give terrible slipstream and that he had to push 300W already behind me at our cruise speed of about 50kph at this point.
This just got worse in the now reduced team and we could feel the accelerations and decelerations depending on who was leading. In hindsight this was a mistake and we should have altered the lead times significantly instead of the speed. The stronger rider and myself still felt good, even after 1h, so we drove up the speed slightly each time we were leading which totally broke the slightly slower rider, leading to massive gaps opening up in the last round.

After the race
We crossed the finish line after 1h 25min which equals an average speed of slightly below 50kph and meant a third place for us out of the 38 teams. A result we are very happy with for our first participation in this race. Also a result we want to improve on next year, for example by breaking the 50kph barrier. For comparison, the multiple time winning team, also winning this year and passing us at the middle of the race, clocked in a 1h 20min 43s = 52.03km/h.
All in all: TTTs are awesome, I wish there were more on the calendar. You dont have this strange sensation of speed, riding as close as possible to your teammate without being really able to break (except for the “air brake” which is sticking your head up) and trying to keep the fine balance of making them suffer by being as aero as you can and going fast, but not too much to keep them fresh enough for their turn on the front (and them doing the very same to you) in any other discipline I think.

BMW TTT | Ride | Strava


Started preparing for 2024 season yesterday. A trip to see the boss at team HQ :slightly_smiling_face:

Frame swap from a speed concept to trinity, and added a cadex disc (which wouldn’t fit in the trek!) and kismet pads and poles. Don’t see many of the kismet extensions, but they feel great, really nice wrist position and you just sort of sink into the position with the fore arm support.

Also swapped from HJC to the Kask which seems to close the gap to my back better - I’ll replace the visor with special Ganna one closer to the new season.

No UCI races next year, so went for the slightly faster tri frame set, and my position has gone a touch longer and higher at the front. Still looks nice and compact, but that’s partly the camera perspective.

This position fails the UCI rules!!! Just shows how hard it is to fit in the UCI “box” when you’re 2 cm short of the maximum height exemption and have silly long arms.

Now six months of off season to get ready to do it justice!


Did you test any of this, or just guesstimations?
Looks fast, no doubt.

I went to the wind tunnel a while ago, and no major position changes since then, just some tweaking and changes to make it more comfortable and easy to hold.

I don’t want to splurge a load of cash and time on that again :joy:.

To be honest my tunnel visit was incredibly frustrating. I didn’t really find any gains at all over an earlier fit with Matt. I did figure out a lot about what doesn’t work. So I learned the box I need to work in!

Main guess work here is the helmet, working on the basis that filling the gap to my back is a good idea. I will do some basic outdoor testing against the hjc if we get a good spell of weather.

I trust Matt. He’s hugely experienced, has tested a lot (particularly around a trinity!), and I’ve gone faster each year I’ve been with them.


Good morning at everyone! I love this thread, and yes, i have discovery only today!
Please don’t end never to live and write!
I’m Italian TT amateur racer enthusiast and TR and WKO5 user.
Thanks so much for more and more suggestion, i have good suggestion and idea, and, me too, i hope too help other TT riders.
Corrado, Italy.


You seem to be very “compact” though. Did you try to increase reach?

Could be due to the picture but that almost looks uncomfortably closed off and compact to me :smiley:
But there’s no way in telling if something works/is fast based on pictures of course.

It’s actually a touch longer and higher than the position I used this year, which was my best year ever in terms of power and results.

With black week offers rolling in, what’s your favorite base bar / extensions you’d get right now, if you didn’t have one?

Seems like WattShop will have 25% off, but >1100 GBP for just the base bar still seems quite steep. Any favorites among 3T, TriRig, Vision etc.?

I have 3T Aduro and Tririg Alphas.

The 3T’s in terms of adjustability are not great unless you get an adaptor plate from MBPC or Aerocoach.
However they feel significantly stiffer to me and nice and narrow.

Alpha One’s have been fantastic for bike fit and if I get in the tunnel at some point will pay for themselves in terms of speed of adjustability. They are quite wide though and the flex on them when indoors is a bit alarming (I weight 75kg so no gorilla). Customer service has been great. Top tip is to buy two monoposts at the same time then cut the one you want to race on once you are dialled in, but still have another if you decide to change bikes etc.

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Just listening to the road.cc forecast and they’ve quite a bit on the decision to stop UK TT’s on 20mph limit roads. My local club is looking at changing its course because of it but we have options it sounds like a lot don’t!

Why the 20mph zone time trial ban could be the “tip of the iceberg” for British racing + Chris Froome’s bike set-up mystery explained | road.cc