I can understand difficulty integrating AT and TrainNow. I can’t imagine how bad the code would currently be in Zwift to have major challenges to bringing in the workout plans and list of workouts since Zwift already has workout plans
I actually think train now and AT into Zwift is the easiest thing possible. All that runs on TRs servers, zwift just needs to query it for the work list for a given athlete, it sends back a list, zwift would be responsible for what should be a simple interface of selecting one of those workouts, it then queries TR for a workout file, TR send it back, and zwift already has the capability of workout “playback”. Even things like plan builder, just need a web interface, and then a different CSS file to make things orange.
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In this scenario, would the TR plan builder functionality be available in Zwift, or just the TR plan components? Plus you would have to build the two-way sync functionality to feed from Zwift, into AT, to then have AT modify the workout, and have a way for people to accept / reject the adaptions, etc. These wouldn’t be “static” plans. Plus all of the functionality around TR annotations for injury / sickness / etc. What about post ride surveys? Etc. Then the biggie, what about plan builder? Etc. Etc. Etc.
I’m not saying there wouldn’t be any challenges or decisions to be made there’s nothing crazy complicated about plan builder being just a wizard process. And I already stated that AT might be the most complicated part.
I see that as the easiest, it would all just get pulled from TR servers. Zwift just needs to display it. Which could be done with just a browser in game that takes TRs existing stuff with some different CSS applied.
A few points about the survey:
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Almost 75% voted for TR to remain independent (categories 1 and 2). Under the likely scenario that Zwift exec team and BoD has already decided that it wants to get into training in a major way, and that a partnership plan will either be rejected or only temporary while Z starts building its own training team or begins search for another company to acquire, how would you feel if in 2 years (the group that voted for option 1 or 2) Z becomes a major competitor (note: Z probably still has over $400M in the bank and access to $1B (i.e. this is not a XERT)? Think of the risk to TR’s business. Should have/would have/could haves don’t save companies.
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Scenarios 3, 4, and 5 are depicted as independent options and neither consider time phasing nor the likely scenario rollout scenario. Most likely, upon acquisition, Eric would announce the formation of 2 divisions headed by VPs/GMs. A Zwifter would [obviously] head the racing division while Nate would be appointed to head the training division. The initial offerings would be purely marketing (Zwift to TR customers, vice versa and a bundled offering). Over time you would see new integrated features and product offerings. And the TR name, may or may not, be continued based on customer make up.
Summary comment: IMO, The survey as presented, is not a representation of business options, but rather purely capturing the current emotional state of TR users on this thread. Considering this thread overall, Imagine the consternation TR employees are feeling? This may be Nate’s first real test of how good of a leader he really is (i.e. how effectively he communicates the opportunity and deals with employee questions, concerns).
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I think the best Zwift could do in the short term is import the workouts from TR the same way they do from Training Peaks. I think for a lot of people that would be a huge benefit, but that is as far as it goes once whatever this is actually happens.
There is no way they could implement all of TR’s features (calendar, analytics, AT, etc) into the Zwift app anytime soon. No chance. I mean I’m not sure they could ever do it given their development history.
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That’s where the acquisition makes sense. You buy the talent who can.
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Sure. I just wonder what Zwift’s code base is like. I have far more confidence that TR has a much more stable and flexible code base.
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They said in the initial AT podcast, that AT runs server side. So AT can live in the current TR infrastructure that is already built… Literally at an MVP (minimum viable product) level, it needs to do a workout push. I mean, loading workings into the TR database is trivial, it records rides as .fit files, and there are plenty of pathways for loading workouts into TR already, getting the data for AT to run is simple.
As for plan builder and calendar all you need is a web interface, and change up the CSS to make everything orange and that’s done as well.
There’s more linkage between AT and the TR plans than that. What you are describing is Trainnow.
The way that AT works today, there is some way it knows the intent (this workout should be productive, this one should be Achievable, etc.) of the workouts in the TR plans. And it uses this, plus what it “sees” in your performance to then change the intent of the workout. So right now, AT is tightly coupled to TR workouts. So if Zwift wanted AT, they need TR plans, which means TR calendar.
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No, I’m not just describing trainnow… The whole calendar and training plan can live on TR servers and only needs a mechanism to be displayed in zwift… which could be as simple as a built in web interface with CSS to make everything orange, or some other mechanism to simple display in zwift.
Depends on who is leading the talent. Just can’t see Zwift being able to do it smoothly.
That said, it would be an amazing product if they could truly incorporate them together.
Zwift is currently working on a new UI which is already launched for first users. @GPLama made a nice video about it.
With the new menu there is a lot of „open space“ to include a calender and all other necessary components for AT.
They already have a quite nice workout creator.
I think they have prepared such an integration with the work of the new UI in the background.
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Agreed, Zwift already has a means to bring in workouts from third parties.
I think trainnow or equivalent suggested workout generator in Zwift would be very popular - I see a lot of people just sign on and ride whatever seems good at the time. A lot of the “short mix” workouts or just whatever workout from the catalogue. Probably a bit harder than sending calendar workouts from TR to Zwift in .zwo format though.
@Jonathan turning up just to throw petrol on the fire is my favourite thing on these forums
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And the TR offering (calendar + workouts + AT (plan adjustments)) would be offered to Z users at launch.
While there are many Z users that may enjoy the TR offering as is, I think the larger opportunity is a more flexible system: Perhaps TR’s calendar is sufficient long term. But the training plans that get loaded into it should allow for more traditional progressive time-in-zone (N+1)/progressive on/offs with RI flexibility that are used by faster cyclists, including those that are self coached and externally coached. Of course, the data analytics would need to be beefed up as well, not necessarily to the level of WKO5, but at minimal include ATL/CTL/TSB and TTE/FRC/Stamina at launch.
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Completely agree. Plenty of people jump onto Zwift and just ride around for fitness and might just pick whatever sounds good that day. Which for many is perfectly fine. But I think trainnow might be perfect for many who may have a little desire to see some progress without adding an entire plan to follow.
As I get older I’m moving more towards just strictly using trainnow as my fitness goals become more and more about just having fun and less about racing.
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Great idea. I don’t think the suggested workout(s) need to be from TR’s plans, but simply analyzing what you have done and adding “N+1” variations as options (more intervals, longer intervals, perhaps RI adjustments).
