Another fan of both, have been on zwift since beta. TR for serious training and Zwift for fast group rides and fun races. Sometimes Zwift and TR combined when a TR workout matches up reasonably well with a Zwift group ride. I never use the workouts feature in zwift. I have no problem with the graphics, I just like the engine/structure that allows me to ride/race with others. Not a fan of the powerups and gamification, but it’s not too intrusive for how I use it.
I don’t know if the recent survey is an indication of a imminent acquisition or partnership, but I would be very surprised if there have not been discussions in the past. Zwift/TR are 2 of the big players in a very small pond, so they’d be dumb not to keep tabs on each other and feel out opportunities and threats. It’s often a fine line between competitor and partner and “coopetition” is super common in the software world, sometimes evolving into acquisition.
I have no idea what the TR ownership structure looks like or if all parties are active and engaged in the business (or want to do it long term), but it’s common for one or more stakeholders to want to cash out at some point and being acquired is often the cleanest way to do that.
Even if TR is acquired, that doesn’t mean the current team and roadmaps are thrown away. You never really know how things will evolve over time. The typical playbook is - Zwift would retain TR leadership via retention agreements and non-compete agreements for x years, but strategic differences on company/product direction will often cause a parting of ways within a couple years. Not always, but that’s a pretty common outcome.
Zwift has raise over a half billion $'s and I think they have only acquired 1 or 2 companies (which is very surprising for what they are trying to do). I know a lot of their investment is around racing, but investors like IP also. TR would bring IP and subscribers. If I were a betting man, I’d put a little $ on TR getting acquired by Zwift before the end of 2022, but time will tell. It seems to make good sense, I think it would come down to the mindset of the TR ownership.
I can’t see tr partner up with any of the above. It just wouldn’t make sense financially. Neither for tr nore for rgt/zwift/rouvy/whatever
But then again … I don’t own a business so ….
Edit: agree on what @grwoolf said though
But partnership and acquisition are two completely different things. And I would hate to see tr being sold as I would hate to see xert or rgt being sold.
These three are examples of ceo who burn for their vision more then for money (at least I’m under that naive impression)
I like Zwift, but maybe they could focus on making some training plans that don’t seem like they were made by throwing a dart at the wall to pick the next interval.
Not mutually exclusive things… $ is often not the motivation, but the deserved outcome of pursuing things passionately.
Does anyone know what the ownership structure of TR looks like? I assume Nate has a big stake, but I think Chad was maybe a co-founder? Others? The more folks in the mix, the more likely acquisition often becomes (it’s hard to cash out one or more parties without a sale event). Nate’s recent divorce could also be causing some ownership changes or challenges (I’m hoping that was as painless as possible). Nate seems super passionate about building and running TR, but he also comes across as a bit of student of the entrepreneurial path. That traditional path is to build something to a “high value” point, sell it, build another thing, sell it, etc. I’m not saying that’s how Nate thinks, it’s just a common mindset for many entrepreneurs. Often not about the $ as much as the thrill of the build.
If anything, I would see Zwift acquiring Xert. They have a smaller team and arguably a more dynamic AI and analytics program. They just need to simplify the offering so that you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to use the system.
Nothing but my common sense (which is very limited tbh …) If you would have bothered to also quote my afterthought this would be more clear I guess. So … Yes, I may be highly strung but I don’t like your attitude.
But to humor you (and me) I dabble further in unknown territory:
How can a partnership (not buyout) even look like?
How many customers would TR have left if you can get TR+Z for the same price? (like 50 hardcore users?)
How can this not lead to an unevitable dependency of TR from Z?
What teaches us the SUF-Wahoo story?
I used to disconnect the Wi-Fi for zwift, all the constant pinging and dinging is very annoying. The last few times I tried this month though, it didn’t sync the whole ride when I reconnected before saving. I used to wait until other riders reappeared then end the ride, but lately I just end up with a 10-minute fragment. Not sure what changed.
There is an “Ignore user” function. Feel free to use it….won’t hurt my feelings in the slightest. I was just asking a question. Any attitude inferred is on you.
Well, had you read the whole thread and seen my earlier post, I already outlined one potential scenario. For dual-subscribers, charge an extra $5 / month to push TR workouts into Zwift. Then I only have to use one device instead of 2. I’d gladly pay that.
For Zwift only users, charge them an extra $10 to access a (limited) set of workouts. Enough to achieve their goals but also not the full TR library.
The key is to not incentivize any current subscribers to jump ship from one platform to another.
Is that plan financially feasible? Dunno….I have no idea what the Venn diagram of TR & Zwift users looks like. Moreover, I don’t know how many current users of either platform would do that….but based on the limited data set that we have here on the forum, I think it is worth investigating.
I’d like to see an integration between plan builder and Zwift. I use TR for most of my workouts and Zwift for occasional long group rides and races to relieve the boredom. Imagine if plan builder could find group rides and races and maybe offer them under the alternates tab. “Would you like to do the 3R 100KM steady ride in place of this workout at 10am on Sunday?”
Taking it a step further, how about a build plan that signs you up for a weekly race series in place of one of the workouts, and sets goals for each week (1 - finish in bunch, 2 - get in a break, 3 - attack hills) or whatever.
@Nate_Pearson if TR is clever, all you have to do is offer “TR Outside Workouts for Zwift” instead of Garmin and Wahoo for 5 EUR / USD / GBP extra fees on TR Account!
So the Zwift Users have a Premium Zwift with the Intelligence of TR AT!
