WKO5 any value?

Thinking about to buy WKO5, but not sure if I’ll find the value in it… I’m currently using intervals.icu.
What’s your experiance?

Here I use WKO5 for the overall data, GoldenCheetah for more the ride analysis and Intervals.icu for the Macro/Micro planning and making workouts.

But WKO5 works only when you provide the software with a number of maximum efforts and regularly update it with new efforts. So when you dont like to do that, it is garbage in garbage out.

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No but your coach most definitely would

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For analytics I started with TrainingPeaks, then Xert, then Golden Cheetah, then WKO4. All before intervals existed. Then upgraded to WKO5.

I’m really really happy with WKO5, however there is a learning curve. I’ve setup my own dashboards and custom charts, the flexibility to customize is one reason I bought it. It is not perfect, there are a few things I can’t script.

Intervals has come a long way, however on my iPhone it is easier to do basic ride analysis in TrainingPeaks mobile (with subscription). On my computer I’d rather pull up a ride on WKO5 (and TP to see target ranges vs actual), but if those disappeared from my computer I would be ok if I only had Intervals for analytics.

This is not true, but can be confusing.

You can manually set FTP and ignore modeled FTP (mFTP). When you manually set FTP, then WKO5 will use that for classic power/HR zones, TSS, IF, NP, CTL, ATL, TSB, etc.

About 50% of the year I am relying on manually set FTP and continue to use WKO5 without issue.

When you do have a well defined power curve, with good short/medium/long efforts, then the human performance model provides advanced analytics you won’t find in other tools.

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I do not agree with you. If you don’t keep the model up to date, you just miss a lot of useful information that you don’t have when the model doesn’t fit properly.

You do not need to buy WKO5 for this. You can also get that data from intervals.icu. WKO5 then has no added value.

Longer answer, after some thought:

Overall, I would say you’re going to hear opinions and experiences that highlight the difference between the “so-called self-coached athlete” and a coach.

For a coach, I’m not sure why the question would even be asked :slight_smile:

For a self-coached athlete, I don’t think they have done a really good job of putting out “WKO Lite” (not sure that was ever the intention). The reality is that’s what ppl who dipped their toe in the analytics pool want/need. intervals.icu (generally) has filled that gap.

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Sure, in a reductionist world I could just use my Garmin 530 and Garmin Connect. I’m not trying to be funny or controversial, seriously I can and have done very productive training just using my Garmin 530 and the free Connect tools.

To me it is like visiting a house, and you hate the decorating style. Looking around and thinking I would hate to have to look at this stuff everyday.

For graphs I don’t like Intervals, Garmin Connect, TR, TP, Xert, etc. I want more control over graphs/charts/reports - scaling, labeling, layering - and ability to assemble my own dashboard. I get all of that from WKO5, and more. And when I’m in season my power curve is well fed and I get additional estimates on performance related metrics.

In other words, where you find no added value, I find the most value. Years ago I bought a license to WKO5 and since then have been enjoying dashboard and charts that help me quickly review a workout. Thats me.

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The real question is why do you want it, and what are you looking to do that would “add value”

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I’m tempted by wko5. Can you give me an example of the charts etc that you’ve created that you can’t get in intervals?

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You can build whatever you like, and track any metrics you can have a data field for.
Sometimes its just about trend analysis with groupsets of data so you can see how things may impact performance.
Other times you can use the model to do some predictive analytics as shown below. The estimated #'s are pretty close to bang on for me, which i have validated previously with lab testing… Gone is needing a lab anymore and paying for testing.

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Is this a standard chart in WKO5 or did you build it please?

Wow! That is some serious analysis. I’m clearly not as keen as you with data. I have no idea even what that chart means or why it would be useful to me.

I think the limit of my data analysis interests go as far as my power curve over time.

This is a standard wko5 graph, but i know that Tim Cusick said in a webinar that it has not yet been possible to determine LT1 without a lab. This graph therefore only works if you have recorded your LT1 heart rate in a lab. Which immediately makes it dubious because there are many more influences on your heart rate than just the effort.

I know this graph is only working in workouts mode, but is it possible to see this graph in trend page? Or do you a sort of lab test workout on the trainer to use this graph?

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If this is the case I would stick with intervals.icu for now and learn more if deeper data analysis starts to interest you. Lots there to be had. Then in due corpse pick up WKO5 in the Black Friday/ Cyber Monday sales :wink:

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Never used intervals.icu and not sure if it also has the same feature but the beauty of WKO5 for me, is being able individualized my training using iLevels.

If you provide a good 90 days of data to WKO5, you can move out classic zones and design intervals as per your data. ıt ıs not ony providing the zones but it also provides the number of repeats and time in zone values.

So it is up to you what you are looking for. There is also Zwift out there but we are usşng TR, why? same question applies here too. But like it was mentioned above, there is learning curve and once you understand WKO5, it gives you a lot of insights about your trainig.

ps: You can design your charts. There is a “programming language” developed by WKO5 and you can write your own script and create your own dashboards and charts.

The most basic customized chart:

and what I see in Intervals if I add a green 66-79% endurance zone:

Its that basic for me. Without getting into the more interesting charts I’ve created.

That does look very swish. I’m guessing your Lap 2 is your whole ride? The data in your customised chart is still all available in intervals including the charts, just not as nicely presented and not all on one page.

Don’t worry about finding a complex chart. I believe you.

Like someone said earlier. You’ve got to have a keen interest in data to make best use of wko5. I’m just not that likely to dig deep into my data enough to actually benefit from the finer detailed information.

no, its lap2. Whole ride:

In Intervals I haven’t stumbled on how to show time in power/HR zones for just an interval.

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No I’ve not seen that either. I was just looking but I couldn’t find the data presented in graph form or just the time in zones for an interval.

That first chart I posted is not a dig deep data dive, its simply controlling the scaling of power y-axis so I can actually see some detail. Plus interval data on time-in-zone.

I tend to use the same routes with minor variations at the end when coming back into town. So I have defined GPS segments and like Strava, these are auto-recognized. Unlike Strava I can auto-sort on power instead of time:

Thats a “hauling ass before the town line sprint” portion of our Wed worlds, where everyone is at their limit. During the season I’ll session that solo, #2 is from a Monday night this year.

There is so much more, but if you just want the basics then Intervals is ok, Golden Cheetah is ok, TrainingPeaks free is ok, Garmin Connect is ok, Strava free is ok, etc., etc.

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