I assume you mean “slower” flywheel speed?
Is everyone who is talking about the difference in inertia with the different size chainrings using a Wahoo?
Has anyone experienced the difference that is being discussed on the Tacx Neo with the “virtual flywheel” and inertia of 125 kg?
Thanks
Reaching muscle failure in a 60 minute FTP test requires great mental strength, but when it comes to the ramp test, if you’re not limited by your cardiovascular fitness, reaching muscle failure does not require much mental strength, it’s basically the same thing as doing an all-out sprint, after about 20-30 seconds your legs will rapidly get very weak and your cadence will drop fast. During the ramp test, when exhaustion will come, it will come quickly, since the last minutes are way above your threshold where the production of lactic acid is accelerated.
Well perhaps, but I guess it depends on the definition of FTP. Functional Threshold Power, as per Dr. Coggan = “the highest power a rider can maintain in a quasi-steady state without fatiguing.” Or power output in watts, or work rate in kilojoules per second, at MLSS. As you mentioned, this has shown to be maintainable for between 30-70 minutes until exhaustion (TTE). So why we take FTP to define our 60 minute threshold power is not logical to me. If we can’t define a specific value to duration at which MLSS can be maintained, or adequately predict TTE at MLSS, then using FTP as a metric for 1 hour power is flawed. Hence my opinion that we actually have, and need a few FTPs or highest power a rider can maintain till exhaustion *at different durations. If you want to call that CP fine by me 
Every thing else you said is spot on. I also don’t want to pretend I know what the solution is, it’s just something I’ve been researching. Wondering if perhaps we are looking at things the wrong way. If we get rid of the concept of one FTP number, then we don’t need to keep reinventing tests that try and span all our training zones.
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Grammar mistake 
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That’s what I thought. I made the edit (and other spelling corrections) in your post.
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I have a Neo and did try experimenting a bit between big ring and little ring. In my experience there was a slight, but noticeable difference in feel. I wouldn’t say the big ring was easier, but at a steady effort it definitely felt closer to actually being out on the road. However, I found any varying efforts in erg mode to be a lot harder in the the big ring. I am able to stay a lot closer to the target power in the little ring, so that’s what I go with.
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Has anyone found that their FTP is much higher outdoors than in?
Plenty of people. It’s covered in some TR blog posts and other places.
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Thanks!
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I also recommend this topic about gear you choose to training on:
http://ciscyclingnyc.com/blog/does-training-in-the-small-chain-ring-even-matter
Interesting link, not sure I agree with the conclusions in all cases. I added my commentary under the numbered lines.
Here are the 10 Reasons why Training in the Small Chain Ring Matters.
- Smaller amount of stress on the working joints
- Seems this would be the opposite, if you accept that the muscles (and therefore joints) will be under stress more through the pedal stroke vs a higher gear with more inertia and less muscle activation duration.
- Delivers more oxygen to the working muscles
- Not sure how he is making this claim?
- Lower glycogen intake
- Not sure how he is making this claim?
- Optimal application of force to the pedals and muscle memory
- Optimal in what way?
- Optimizes Neuromuscular Fatigue
- I think this is likely because of my comments in #1, more muscle engagement through the pedal circle.
- Prevents preseason injuries
- Not sure how he is making this claim? Again, I am referencing what I see as more strain on the body via #1
- Help to develop force throughout the entire pedal stroke
- Agreed.
- Funny how we worked so hard to make trainers have these massive flywheels to get better road feel. But now, this new focus leans towards reducing the inertia… in effect getting more towards the lower quality trainers of old that had minimal flywheels
- Pedal Stroke efficiency, control and technique
- Agreed, #1 & #7.
- Develops more muscle fibers with each pedal stroke
- Agreed, #1 & #7.
- Make your big chain ring more effective
- Probably as a result of the physical gains in muscles via the small ring training.
Need I say more… there is Science behind this subject matter.
- Kinda, yeah… he needs to say more
- There is little to no actual justification on any of the claimed benefits.
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The peak force in the stroke would be smaller if the muscles are activated for more of the stroke. I think that’s what’s going on there.
Mike
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Peak force is determined by the torque you are putting out. If you are running in erg mode the power output is approximately constant. Since Power = Torque * RPM and we are holding Power and RPM constant regardless of what gear we are in, the Torque isn’t changing.
The point here is that the torque isn’t constant - if you’re in the big ring with lots of inertia in the flywheel and you have the ‘road like feel’ the forces are not constant, just like riding at high speed. In the small ring there is much less inertia and the forces are more constant, more akin to thick mud in a cross race.
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Couldn’t agree more.
This is what Sufferfest’s 4DP does to taylor the workouts above FTP to your abilities. Ignore what they say about 20 minute power being your FTP - from memory they use the same 0.95 conversion.
(Warning: screenshot from competitor’s website!)
Is it better than just adjusting the intensity by a few percent to get it to the correct intensity? Maybe, maybe not…
Mike
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This article has no relevance to picking the small ring on a trainer. Its basically saying higher cadence is better.
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-
Do a workout in 52-15.
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Then do the same workout in 39-15, keeping your cadence the same.
Due to flywheel speed and inertia, 1 is easier than 2. 2 is harder because you essentially have to press the pedals harder to keep the cadence constant, like when you’re riding up a hill.
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I’m not sure if this is true on a smart trainer in erg mode.
It absolutely is the case for ERG. Gearing can be used to alter feel and overall stress.
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