What workout did you do today? (2020, part 2)

[BCrossen]

Basin. This one has me really questioning myself. Blew with 20 seconds left on the first one as I hit 190 bpm. Dropped 5% and blew even earlier and hit 188. Dropped another 5% and barely made it through the third one and hit 188. Blew with 20 seconds left in the last one at 185 but it was really just the legs locking up entirely.

Am I just a weak mental rider? Is my FTP just way off? I honestly cannot figure out what is going on right now. Feel lost. Been up and down with completing or not completing workouts since the last two weeks of build.

Any advice out there? Is it worth ramp testing with the next 2 weeks being the final two of specialty? Like I said, I feel lost right now.

[FatherDamo2]

I blew my build recently, got a couple of weeks into it and was failing it… I put it down to a build up of fatigue over the weeks before with base, which I was crushing and my lack of ability to recover like I once did (Age). Suddenly different types of workouts questioning other systems. I took a rest, binned the build and did other “enjoyable” stuff like zwift racing and outdoor stuff. It kept my fitness but also made me appreciate the rest periods in workouts again. A 50 minute race at full gas makes you desire a workouts because they have lovely breaks!

Racing also allowed me to take more days off to recover, believe I deserved it after a tough race. If your FTP worked for you in base then it can’t be far off. I find fatigue can suddenly makes you fall off a cliff and reducing intensity for further intervals doesn’t help as you’ve already gone over that edge. Nothing wrong with reducing intensity, but in my experience (n=1) if it’s due to fatigue then it’s not going to help and make you question everything.

Personally I’m now waiting for the Zwift academy and just filling in with random workouts as I’ve had enough of racing for now, it hurts! Looking forward to some big group suffering and then I’ll probably look doing a build cycle and see how it goes.

IMO I would put good money on it you were fresh, physically and mentally and attempted the build you’d get through them with your current FTP. That’s another thing I judge for myself, some times I love doing a FTP ramp test, can’t wait to suffer, see how far I get…when I don’t fancy doing one I know I’ve probably done too much, not just physically but mentally too and its time to rest & recharge, you have to do that in your own way before hitting it again.

Sorry for long post, just my thoughts and maybe some of it will help.

[jarsson]

A little bit gentler start of the training block - 4x20@92%. Colder outside although humidity is 75%. Overall workout easy and pleasant.

[BCrossen]

This definitely does help. My FTP in base was 212 or so, and it grew to 240 according to the last ramp test, but I feel like isn’t actually representative of my current level right now considering every other workout seems to be a failure in compliance. I’ve not done ANY steady state efforts with this new FTP, so I don’t really know how correct or incorrect it is. My suspicious is that my FTP is more likely around 225 given recent performances.

I came into this workout super rested (didn’t ride since my failed workout on Saturday and spent my time horizontal as much as possible Sunday) and well fueled. And that’s particularly why I feel like something is wrong here. The workouts last week, although I felt good, never actually complied with the power prescribed once it got over FTP, and that trend has continued into this week.

I’m thinking I may can the rest of specialty for the year and just spend time having fun on the bike instead. Flex the fitness I have with friends, take time off and hit the base training again in November after disconnecting for a bit. This is the longest and most consistently I have ever trained before, so I may just chalk it up to the body not being used to this many weeks of structure in a row.

[cali]

Galena. Pretty tough especially after the Galena +3 yesterday. Had the same annoying last interval coaching telling me I should stop. Not a fan of this @chad

How do I turn that off? Is it possible to do within the workout?

[runriderandi]

Turn off In-Ride Instructions?

Is there anywhere to turn off the instructions. I sometimes find when @chad is telling me that backpedalling or bailing is an option the RPE ramps up. I’m in a zone and a new instruction pops up to remind me how much this hurts. I don’t always find it helpful.

It’s in the settings option. I agree with you on the text like that, and have turned it off myself. Another one that gets me is “if this is easy…” during workouts like VO2 when I’m dyyyyying.

[AndyBaggott]

Build literally killed me, I also canned it after 4 weeks. I’m no expert and probably haven’t trained as long as you, but you sound fatigued, take that break and I’m sure you’ll come back stronger than ever! I’ve never felt fitter and put it down to absorbing the stress💪

[BCrossen]

Yeah, I just deleted the rest of specialty (only 8 workouts left in total). Those efforts are just so sharp, and I do not have the capacity to repeat those efforts like that. That said, now I understand how it helps you peak for races. That mental toughness and ability to repeat 150% efforts would be a huge get.

Build was certainly tough, but I managed to do all but one workout in the last week with perfect compliance (last year I could not make it through the whole phase). The most consistent lack of compliance with power targets has been in specialty the past 2-3 weeks when the power targets started to regularly include 130 to 150% efforts. Totally leg breaker.

[TonyLPowell]

@runriderandi

I think I am truly finding what FTP feels like using resistance mode now.

Same here. Puts a whole new perspective on doing indoor training.

[TonyLPowell]

Meant to post yesterday, but got busy and forgot.

Basin -4: comments in the ride notes, which will help me remember not to do this one again.

[HLaB]

Baird +6 for me tonight. I managed to stay on the TT poles until the 2nd last over when I psychologically needed to take a break my mind wondered and I fell into the ERG spiral of death which made the last interval back on the TT poles hard so after 30-40s of that interval I turned ERG off for about 30 or 40s so I could get my cadence back up to finish the session relatively comfortably
Listened to the Roadman podcast throughout or that last zone 2 section for 33mins would have been mind numbing

[bobw]

@BCrossen & @TonyLPowell - glad I’m not the only one who struggles with Basin and variants. They are like multiple Ramp Tests one after the other. Only “managed” one of the intervals in Basin+1 but somehow got through Basin and Basin-4.

[BCrossen]

Dude. I didn’t realize what I was in for until I was in it. It literally feels like the final 3 minutes of a ramp test, but then take a 5 minute rest and do it again and again and again. Literal death and resurrection every 10 minutes. Idk how others are so compliant with that workout based on my experience. It seemed literally impossible.

[TonyLPowell]

One of the benefits of resistance mode is that you only have to “chase” the target and do your best with whatever the target wattage is set on. 130% and above is too much for this old man; can’t imagine doing that in ERG mode.

[CH01]

@runriderandi

2x25 at 90% on the calendar today. Climbed the Alpe on Zwift to start ticking off more trips for my masochist badge, and maybe one day not get the the f%*#ing gloves…

I always get the gloves @runriderandi. So much so that I have actually opened up my own glove shop at the base of AdZ. I’m overstocked.

@runriderandi

The plan was to just cruise to the top after both intervals, but baby did not nap as long as anticipated (like she does when I want to ride!)

I feel you on this one mate. Generally speaking, nap time doesn’t fare well on the days that I choose to ride up AdZ during the nap! I’ve had to swap things around so that I cycle first thing in the morning now. Up at 4:50am and on the bike at 5am before everyone else wakes up. That way, come nap time, Dad also uses the time to have a nap

[CH01]

I’ve been really enjoying the exercise physiology podcasts of late and I have been playing around with VO2 intervals and different rest times.

The PC system takes between 2-3 minutes to fully recover (depending on the athlete of course) so I wanted to see what the exhausted, or near exhausted, PC system ‘felt’ like today. It did not feel good. Not one bit.

Very challenging but I can see the benefits of it - it decreases the % of the interval being anaerobic and instead forces the body to work aerobically to produce the effort. The warm up VO2 efforts at 110% and the first interval went well as my PC stocks were fully charged. Then it was a gradual decline into some dark, dark times in the 3rd, 4th and 5th interval before reaching the Endurance component of the ride.

All in all a good little n=1 experiment. 2 minutes rest is not long enough for me at my current level as I am not able to execute the 3rd, 4th and 5th intervals in the session efficiently. I have now experimented with 2min to 5min rest periods (5min rest = 1:1 ratio) in the 5x5’s and for me, I think 3-4min is where I will land moving forward. Then I will tweak that using the concept of progressive overload once I get stronger and build up those oxidative capacities.

With all that said, my heart rate was in VO2 territory for the 3rd, 4th and 5th efforts regardless of power output so there is another lesson in that as well. As PC is exhausted, the glycolytic system kicks in and you are working aerobically etc. Lactate, or more specifically H+, builds up and the system reaches a certain level of acidosis = respiration and HR increase. So technically still hit my VO2 markers in those intervals, just at a different power output because of fatigue + lack of PC anaerobic contribution.

A solid 120min session in total - VO2 first up and then an Endurance block to finish up. Also have been reading about the benefits of doing an Endurance block after a VO2 block so there is that too. I can definitely confirm the benefits of that through my n=1 experience!

[runriderandi]

@CH01

Up at 4:50am and on the bike at 5am before everyone else wakes up.

I do this on weekdays and always have intentions of doing it on weekends too but 4 out of 5 times it doesn’t happen

Also, what type of progressions have you been doing for your VO2 work? I’ll be getting there soon and was thinking starting with 3min intervals maybe 5-7x then just lengthening the time but shortening the amount of intervals? I want to be able to do the coveted 5x5 well, hitting the VO2 HR/RPE/breathing.

[CH01]

@runriderandi

Also, what type of progressions have you been doing for your VO2 work? I’ll be getting there soon and was thinking starting with 3min intervals maybe 5-7x then just lengthening the time but shortening the amount of intervals? I want to be able to do the coveted 5x5 well, hitting the VO2 HR/RPE/breathing.

I’ve mainly been focusing on 5min and 8min intervals as they suite what I am training for at the moment. I started off with 4min intervals though.

@runriderandi, this is a really good podcast episode on executing intervals that really helped me. Especially when they talk about intervals through the lens of targeting specific energy systems as opposed to target watts etc. Sepp Kuss from Jumbo Visma provides fantastic insight into how he performs intervals in the episode.

[AOMusette]

Into the final week of Build (yay) but it hits you with some pretty demanding VO2 and Anaerobic stuff

Monday

Kaiser +1, 6 * 3 @ 122%, actually went so well I think my trainer calibration may have been suspect.

Tuesday

Ok this wasn’t in the TR program but a group Zwift workout with friends. If I can do 6 * 3 mins @ 122% then 10 * 1 min @ 140% shouldn’t be much harder should it? WRONG. Only fear of losing face kept me going here. The last 10-15s of intervals 2-10 were truly deeply desperate.

Wednesday

Back to Build program with Ansel Adams, only 50s @ 135% but 24 times I thought no way after yesterday’s torture, and halfway through the first set that seemed confirmed but struggled to the end of that set whence sets 2 & 3 actually seemed very slightly less obnoxious. Probably the endorphins.

[ellotheth]

Donner:

I’m experimenting with a shuffled schedule that will give me more flexibility on weekends if I can manage two hard days back-to-back, so this is round one. Managed to banish the suggestion that I could just backpedal for a second and/or stop into the back of my mind long enough to actually finish without bailouts, so I’m calling it a win. Chucked about 750m into the Tron bike up the Alpe in the process, I think I’m over half-way now!